Phys builds suck, don't bother

"

linkas wrote:

you have no clue what you are talking about, don't spread misinformation. Catalyse is additive, not multiplicative with the melee bonuses you already have so it doesn't benefit the fire damage from added fire as much. Also where are you getting 324% from? it would be 1.8 x .8 not 1.8 x 1.8. Weapon elemental damage is mainly useful if you have a good amount of flat elemental damage.

Also to the OP, your build is just plain bad, if you don't have great gear, you should definitely be using axes and CE support gem. DW physical builds take more damage and gearing to really work, and if don't have the gear you have to use things so that you can penetrate armor better. Don't badmouth physical builds just because you don't know how to build. Physical builds definitely take more effort to make work though.

Now, Im not theorycrafter nor I actively play elemental build at the moment but the numbers Zealflare posted seem correct but the interpretation is slightly off or not complete. My quick and dirty test suggests that 324% applies to the fire damage dealt after all additive and multiplicative bonuses are counted, ie. final fire damage is 324% higher than if just Added Fire Damage is used.

My dirty test:
Physical damage done: 1000
Added Fire damage lvl20: +39% || +390 fire damage (1000 * 0.39)
Catalyse: +50% || +195 fire damage (390 * 0.5)
Lava Lash: +30% || +117 fire damage (390 * 0.3)
Weapon Elemental Damage: 80% more elemental damage (fire in this case) || 561.6 fire damage ((390+195+117)*0.8)
Total damage done: 2263.6 (1000 + 390 + 195 + 117 + 561.6)
Total damage of 2263.6 / 1000 = 2.26 or 226% of initial physical damage BUT!
Total fire damage of 1263.6 / 390 = 3.24 or 324% of initial fire damage.

Would that be correct interpretation and the way additive and multiplicative bonuses work?

"

linkas wrote:

you have no clue what you are talking about, don't spread misinformation. Catalyse is additive, not multiplicative with the melee bonuses you already have so it doesn't benefit the fire damage from added fire as much. Also where are you getting 324% from? it would be 1.8 x .8 not 1.8 x 1.8. Weapon elemental damage is mainly useful if you have a good amount of flat elemental damage.

Also to the OP, your build is just plain bad, if you don't have great gear, you should definitely be using axes and CE support gem. DW physical builds take more damage and gearing to really work, and if don't have the gear you have to use things so that you can penetrate armor better. Don't badmouth physical builds just because you don't know how to build. Physical builds definitely take more effort to make work though.

I made a mistake by not taking into account phy % so yes, catalyse isn't as good as it seems.

"

lvl 20 Added Fire: 39% of phy
lvl 20 WED: 80% MORE elemental dmg with attacks

With 0% phy, 80% fire, 1000 base phy:

1000*0.39 = 390 base fire
390*1.8 (catalyse + lava lash) *1.8 (80% more is NOT x0.8) = 1263 fire damage
1263/390 = 3.24 (aka 324% of base fire)

With 150% phy, 80% fire, 1000 base phy:

1000*0.39 = 390 base fire
390*3.3 (catalyse + lava lash + 150% phy) *1.8 = 2316.6
2316/390 = 5.94 (594% of base fire)

But maybe you should take your own advise and stop spreading mis-information about WED gem. 80% more is not x0.8. That is 20% less.

No idea what you wanna be geeks are on about however I hope this helps you guys.

I have Catalyst, Lava Lash, Level 19. 20% WED(89%) and Level 20. 20% Added Fire Damage(39% + 15% Increased Fire Damage)
I have no other source of Elemental or Fire damage.


Mainhand Physical Damage: 1031 - 2017
Mainhand Fire Damage: 917 - 1794

Offhand Physical Damage: 1290 - 2192
Offhand Fire Damage: 1146 - 1949

@Zealflare - Not sure if I read your post correctly however inside your equation isn't my Fire Damage suppose to end up higher then my Physical Damage?

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Zeldoon wrote:

No idea what you wanna be geeks are on about however I hope this helps you guys.

I have Catalyst, Lava Lash, Level 19. 20% WED(89%) and Level 20. 20% Added Fire Damage(39% + 15% Increased Fire Damage)
I have no other source of Elemental or Fire damage.


Mainhand Physical Damage: 1031 - 2017
Mainhand Fire Damage: 917 - 1794

Offhand Physical Damage: 1290 - 2192
Offhand Fire Damage: 1146 - 1949

@Zealflare - Not sure if I read your post correctly however inside your equation isn't my Fire Damage suppose to end up higher then my Physical Damage?

What do the numbers look like if you take the WED damage support gem out?

"

Pyrinoc wrote:

What do the numbers look like if you take the WED damage support gem out?

Without WED:

Mainhand Physical Damage: 1031 - 2017
Mainhand Fire Damage: 502 - 982

Offhand Physical Damage: 1290 - 2192
Offhand Fire Damage: 627 - 1066

"

Zeldoon wrote:

"

Pyrinoc wrote:

What do the numbers look like if you take the WED damage support gem out?

Without WED:

Mainhand Physical Damage: 1031 - 2017
Mainhand Fire Damage: 502 - 982

Offhand Physical Damage: 1290 - 2192
Offhand Fire Damage: 627 - 1066

Hm. What are all the gems linked? What attack and what supports total to produce this?

i can agree with the statment, that pure physical is inferior. Especially for a Duelist. My main concern is, that there is no benefit to go pure physical, except life leech. For a 2h it might be an option for knockback or stun, but what other synergys occure? For pure elemental we have freeze,shock, buning, chill duration on normal strikes, Elemental proliferation, Elemental Equilibrium, status aligments on hits, Tempest Shield or Molten Shell that profits from %increased Elemental Damage, variety in Skills like: Frost Wall, second form of Ice Spear, AoE Damage from LA, IS and Explosive Arrows, binding to Totems, less damage more hit for Incinerate, and many more. This allows diffrent playstyles and unique caracters.
And whats in it for Physical? More physical and/or Attack Speed. Maybe one hit effects like Blind or Stun. And because mostly you play melee, you have all the drawbacks from it. Just as Armour/Evasion decreased effectivness for higher damage income, because it balances all the classes regardless of his defensive stat choosing, and Range and Melee has the same conditions before enemies. Thats the true meaning of "Equal" and "Balanced".

So in short: If you like to play physical builds, especially melee go for it. But you will only find plain and inferior builds. I therefore would play another ARPG that offers me more variety. Or you could go for elemental and/or range for a real PoE expirience.

Still on beta. Things may change, I hope. Personally I'm giving poe until summer starts, if phys still blows(i'm a groundslam mara with 12k GS dps now) then it's back to my enjoyable melee WW barb.

There is absolutely no point in trying to build pure physical builds. Player may restrict themselves to pure physical but that is purely role-play limitation that has no meaning in this game. There is so many skill or support gems and auras that benefit from physical damage, or add elemental damage as a % of physical on top, eg. Hatred, Added Fire Damage or Burning Arrow. These skills have no negative impact on the performance of physical damage, they do not convert physical to elemental damage, therefore, things like life or mana leech are still working 100% as if being pure physical.

In my view, physical build means that I pick passives that improve physical damage. Physical build should never be about dealing physical damage only.

"

Zealflare wrote:

"

linkas wrote:

you have no clue what you are talking about, don't spread misinformation. Catalyse is additive, not multiplicative with the melee bonuses you already have so it doesn't benefit the fire damage from added fire as much. Also where are you getting 324% from? it would be 1.8 x .8 not 1.8 x 1.8. Weapon elemental damage is mainly useful if you have a good amount of flat elemental damage.

Also to the OP, your build is just plain bad, if you don't have great gear, you should definitely be using axes and CE support gem. DW physical builds take more damage and gearing to really work, and if don't have the gear you have to use things so that you can penetrate armor better. Don't badmouth physical builds just because you don't know how to build. Physical builds definitely take more effort to make work though.

I made a mistake by not taking into account phy % so yes, catalyse isn't as good as it seems.

"

lvl 20 Added Fire: 39% of phy
lvl 20 WED: 80% MORE elemental dmg with attacks

With 0% phy, 80% fire, 1000 base phy:

1000*0.39 = 390 base fire
390*1.8 (catalyse + lava lash) *1.8 (80% more is NOT x0.8) = 1263 fire damage
1263/390 = 3.24 (aka 324% of base fire)

With 150% phy, 80% fire, 1000 base phy:

1000*0.39 = 390 base fire
390*3.3 (catalyse + lava lash + 150% phy) *1.8 = 2316.6
2316/390 = 5.94 (594% of base fire)

But maybe you should take your own advise and stop spreading mis-information about WED gem. 80% more is not x0.8. That is 20% less.

Actually I misread your first post, I thought you were just talking about the the amount of increased fire damage you would get from catalyse/lava lash. I wasn't really talking about the WED gem at all, mainly focusing on you overstating the damage gains from catalyse/lava lash which I feel aren't that great if you don't have flat elemental damage sources.