"Enemies have -x% to Total Physical Damage Reduction against your Hits" sounds way too clunky.

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Mark_GGG wrote:

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herflik wrote:

And I meant that it should work exactly the same as elemental to make it consistent.

That's not possible because penetration applies to resistances, and there is no physical resistance in PoE to penetrate. There's Physical Damage Reduction, which acts differently from a Resistance in several ways. That necessitates a different mechanic to interact with it.

I suspect longer-term, if we end up using this mechanic more broadly, it will end up being "keyworded" similar to penetration but with its own distinct term to reflect the fact it has its own distinct mechanics. In the meantime, the description specifies exactly what it is mechanically doing.

As I know, we have few layers of almost the same mechanic in the game (corrent me if I remember it wrong):
- resistance
- reduction (armor is calculated here aswell)
- less damage taken

So the question would be, what for copy-paste the same mechanics with small differences over and over, instead of making it united, easier to understand and on end, easier to balance for you?

Maybe it is time to rework the defensive mechanics to create some easy to use standard?

From the thousand of games that I have played, one of them had really good mechanic - you had two values - flat armor and % armor.

% armor reduced all incoming dmg by x% - great for bosses and hard hiting stuff.
Flat armor was reducting all dmg by x flat value - good for swarm of weaker enemies.

As a player you had to balance both values to be effective. Focusing on just one made you either voulnerable to strong or weak hits.

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herflik wrote:

From the thousand of games that I have played, one of them had really good mechanic - you had two values - flat armor and % armor.

% armor reduced all incoming dmg by x% - great for bosses and hard hiting stuff.
Flat armor was reducting all dmg by x flat value - good for swarm of weaker enemies.

As a player you had to balance both values to be effective. Focusing on just one made you either voulnerable to strong or weak hits.

Because of blind and what a bit of evasion gives you, % armour ( + flat % armour ) is more than enough against swarm of ennemies.

But there is already what you are talking about in PoE, we already have both.

So, bottom line is?
Does it work like penetration?
Monsters can have negative phys reduction?
So it's a multiplier?
Sounds a bit op to me, but who am I to complaine

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Evia1 wrote:

Does it work like penetration?

No

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Evia1 wrote:

Monsters can have negative phys reduction?

Not via the new method, only to 0, which in any other game is the 'penetration' since you can't penetrate what isn't there commonly.

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Evia1 wrote:

So it's a multiplier?

As much as has been seen additive but with few sources to stack it.

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Evia1 wrote:

Sounds a bit op to me, but who am I to complaine

Mentioned limitations make it very balanced as it can never go negative (like penetration does, which is unbalanced)

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Mark_GGG wrote:

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herflik wrote:

And I meant that it should work exactly the same as elemental to make it consistent.

That's not possible because penetration applies to resistances, and there is no physical resistance in PoE to penetrate. There's Physical Damage Reduction, which acts differently from a Resistance in several ways. That necessitates a different mechanic to interact with it.

I suspect longer-term, if we end up using this mechanic more broadly, it will end up being "keyworded" similar to penetration but with its own distinct term to reflect the fact it has its own distinct mechanics. In the meantime, the description specifies exactly what it is mechanically doing.

If your reduction to their total phys reduc ends up being more than the phys reduction the enemy has against your hit, will it act the same way as making an enemy's resist go negative?

For the most part %Physical Reduction seems a band-aid to the changes in resistances across bosses. I've seen quite a few with 40% mods which is a huge drop in physical damage.

Given how easy it is to get more % damage on gear and such it would seem -%Reduction is just about required for a high end physical build as it's a multiplicative difference.

...and since it doesn't go below 0 it feels like a very bland change. Reduce your overall damage so it doesn't get tanked under conditional situations.

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zairtheassassin wrote:

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Mark_GGG wrote:

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herflik wrote:

And I meant that it should work exactly the same as elemental to make it consistent.

That's not possible because penetration applies to resistances, and there is no physical resistance in PoE to penetrate. There's Physical Damage Reduction, which acts differently from a Resistance in several ways. That necessitates a different mechanic to interact with it.

I suspect longer-term, if we end up using this mechanic more broadly, it will end up being "keyworded" similar to penetration but with its own distinct term to reflect the fact it has its own distinct mechanics. In the meantime, the description specifies exactly what it is mechanically doing.

If your reduction to their total phys reduc ends up being more than the phys reduction the enemy has against your hit, will it act the same way as making an enemy's resist go negative?

afaik no.

Name it Physical Penetration.

And rename the elemental one Elemental Penetration Plus, because it does more.

I currently have this total physical damage reduction against your hits mod stacked to -45%. I have no Idea if it's doing me any good. I assumed that bosses have an insane amount of phys damage reduction but I can't find any info to back that up. Anyone know?

The Question is what kind of Physical Damage reduction and how much a Enemy has?


My best guess is the map mod: monster take less physical dmg.
I dont think Monsters use Basalt Flasks.

Do Monsters have Armor?
If so, its intressting, cause Armor needs to have a high enough threshold to reduce damage. I dont think the stat would reduce the threshold, but maybe the damage reduced by armor.
A 100 Damage Hit versus a 1000 Armor does 50 damage, whats a 50% reduction - a 50% less total physical damage reduction would add 25 damage.


My guess thats why its not worded as Penetration, cause physical damage reduction works diffrently as resistence.
But wouldnt that have a diffrent Wording? Or "Reduce xx% of armor against your hits" or "Your hits break 2000 Armor" ?


I guess its a huge thing for physical builds with a lot atk speed, onehanded. If the hit is too small for breaking the enemys armor threshold, its not dealing good damage.
Thing as Impale, where you want fast hits to build the 5 impale stacks - guess thats why there is 20 "on impale hits".

Im currently running with 10% and 20% on impale hits and it does feel good on bosses and unique monsters.