[3.7] Nickonasty's Modular CoCpri Ice Nova Assassin - Shaper/UElder Viable

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sn0rf wrote:
Really well written guide! Getting most of the gear together right now, can't wait to put the build to the test - feels like a lifetime since I've played CoC.

One question: managed to get my hands on this Watcher's Eye and was wondering if there's any way to min-max the build to take advantage of the Discipline mod. Realistically, I guess it just gives me the option of dropping Zealotry in favor of more survivability through higher ES + ES on hit.



That is a crazy Watcher's Eye, I'm thinking you could take the plunge and go full Low Life instead of using the Soul Tether + Glorious Vanity interaction, this would put a fair strain on your wallet because you would need a Presence of Chayula and 6L Shavronne's Wrappings at minimum.

The only way I can think of to run Life and all 3 auras off the top of my head is to use an Aul's Uprising with either Zealotry/Discipline reserves no mana. Ideally you get a Aul's Uprising with Zealotry reserves no mana (because it's a 50% aura). That leaves you Hatred (50%), Discipline (35%) and Precision (20 or so flat).

At this point you could drop Precision and run a LVL4 Enlighten or a Shaped Shield with 15% reduced reservation of gems and squeeze in Herald of Ice to make up for the damage.

Give me a shout in game or on Discord and we can maybe work through a PoB and plan it out.
noot noot
Last edited by Ralign on Jun 20, 2019, 3:47:03 AM
Guys i cant decide on build i never played CoC. Should i go this or https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wwa5z9fSWrA (mbXtreme coc cyclone)
? help
Last edited by Shetzki on Jun 20, 2019, 4:06:13 AM
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Shetzki wrote:
Guys i cant decide on build i never played CoC. Should i go this or https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wwa5z9fSWrA (mbXtreme coc cyclone)
? help


Thanks for stopping by. Choosing a build depends what kind of setup you want to run.

From a quick glance at mbXtreme's setup, he's using Haste and running a Devoto's Devotion for clear speed and primarily relies on Acro/Phase Acro for defenses. His PoB hasn't aged well since his attack speed isn't optimized for 3.7 Cyclone changes so you would have to spend some time tweaking that.

My setup uses the new Glorious Vanity jewels and Soul Tether to give you an extra health pool and primarily relies on that to tank most content. You can use a Loreweave or Perfect Form to provide extra defenses if desired.

Hope this helps you make an informed decision!
noot noot
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Ralign wrote:
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Eetfawk wrote:
How about leveling up CWDT to use a mid level steelskin for another 1-1.5k EHP instead of Immortal Call?

Edit: How about Pantheon?

Edit2: why MoM when you have near zero mana? What am I missing?


Simple answers first:

You can use Solaris/Lunaris and Ralakesh/Yugul(for Elder/Shaper)

MoM isn't actually what is skilled, it's the corrupted keystone from Glorious Vanity called Corrupted Soul. Take a look at the "Soul Tether and Glorious Vanity" section in Build Mechanics.

Complicated answer:

CWDT links are largely preferential, I like a low level CWDT to proc enfeeble frequently.

As for Steelskin vs Immortal call, 1.5k eHP is definitely really good for smaller hits that won't exceed it's absorption limit or after a really large hit that reduces your remaining life pool quite a lot.

However, Immortal Call provides a reduction of 26% without a damage limit (for 1 second without increased duration).

Let's say we have 8000 Life + ES and take a hit for 2000 after reductions. This will trigger a LVL14 CWDT, which would let us use a LVL18 Steelskin (1700 eHP). That gives us about 7700 eHP adding in the damage absorbed. This means we can tank "killing" blow(s) just under 7700.

On the other hand, if we trigger a LVL3 Immortal Call, we would get 26% less damage taken. So damage would apply at 0.74 times its original value. Our remaining life pool of 6000 would then be worth 6000/0.74 or 8100 eHP total. This means we can tank "killing" blow(s) just under 8100.

The two are roughly equal at 5700 Life + ES remaining (provided they are both used to their fullest capacity to tank 'killing' blows just under the Life + ES remaining).

Steelskin would nearly invalidate a mediocre hit at its damage absorption capacity much better than Immortal Call would making it more useful for fewer medium damage hits.

Immortal Call would be more effective for a YOLO playstyle where you hop into a pack which could probably 1 shot you.


Thanks! So why is it bad if my cyclone has 10 APS and 11.5 with silver flask? Do I lose DPS?
Ralign do you recommend this build to a new player like me?
I currently run a physical Cyclone build, but I like to see some more action on my screen.

A friend off mine recommend this build:
https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/2285205/page/1

Yours is better optimized for 3.7?

"
Thanks! So why is it bad if my cyclone has 10 APS and 11.5 with silver flask? Do I lose DPS?


So first things first, the support Cast on Critical Strike essentially adds a cooldown to your linked spells. Cospri's Malice also works the same way and attaches a cooldown to your linked spells.

By default this cooldown is written as 150ms on the gem descriptions, but when you translate this into server ticks it's somewhere closer to 165ms. This is without any % increased cooldown recovery speed, we'll get into that later.

This means that the fastest your linked spells can trigger is every 165ms or just over 6 times a second. Let's say your attack speed is exactly 6 seconds.

If we assume you crit every hit, your "request" to trigger (i.e. your attack) always occurs when your spell is available (because your spell cooldown refreshes slightly faster than you are attacking). This is good because you never "skip" a trigger.

However, if you attack faster than the trigger cooldown, let's say 10 times a second. Let's consider just the first second of attacking a target assuming 100% hit chance and crit chance:

1 Second Example without Syncing APS

Your cyclone crits at 0 seconds, your spell also triggers and goes on cooldown until 0.165 seconds.

Your cyclone crits at 0.100 seconds, your spell can't trigger because it's on cooldown.

Your cyclone crits at 0.200 seconds, your spell triggers and goes on cooldown until 0.365

Your cyclone crits at 0.300 seconds, your spell can't trigger because it's on cooldown.

Your cyclone crits at 0.400 seconds, your spell triggers and goes on cooldown until 0.565.

Your cyclone crits at 0.500 seconds, your spell can't trigger because it's on cooldown.

Your cyclone crits at 0.600 seconds, your spell triggers and goes on cooldown until 0.765.

Your cyclone crits at 0.700 seconds, your spell can't trigger because it's on cooldown.

Your cyclone crits at 0.800 seconds, your spell triggers and goes on cooldown until 0.965.

Your cyclone crits at 0.900 seconds, your spell can't trigger because it's on cooldown.


At the end of this, you have only triggered your spell 5 times as opposed to 6 times if your cyclone had 6 APS (which is just a tiny bit slower than the cooldown).

As a rule of thumb, you want your cyclone APS to be slightly under the cooldown duration on your CoC spells. "Missing" triggers is the worst when your cyclone attack speed is just faster than your spell cooldowns can accommodate; you will essentially miss every other trigger it will feel terrible.

Now, if you are set on having your attack speed this fast, that's totally okay as there is a solution to this issue, that is to get your cyclone as close to 12 APS (but not over 12 APS). This will work because even though every other cyclone hit won't trigger a spell, you are still synced up with the CoC cooldown on your gems on hits that do trigger the spell.

The issue with pushing your cyclone to 12 APS is that it relies on conditional buffs such as onslaught and buffs like blood rage which have downsides.

Furthermore, if you add increased cooldown recovery speed to your build, you can reduce the CoC spell trigger cooldown to 132ms (7.57 times a second). Following the same setup from before you want to hit either just under 7.5 times a second, or if you go over, 15 times a second. Hitting 15 APS on cyclone is quite difficult without significant investment and, when you think about it there isn't much reason to do so when 7.5 APS will do just fine.

DISCLAIMER: if you have multiple spells socketed with only one trigger source, when your attack crits, you trigger only one spell at a time and only that spell goes on cooldown. Furthermore, CoC will always alternate between spell A and spell B even if both are off cooldown.

Even with this considered, I dislike pushing attack speeds that high as personally I find the investment in attack speed to be unreasonable for the budgets I usually set for my builds. However, if you are able to push to 12 and 15 APS depending on your iCDR without breaking a sweat, definitely do so and dual wield Cospri's Malice with only one spell in each (cyclone will alternate weapons with each hits).

If you want to know more about how the trigger rates change with iCDR and the effects of latency check out this thread.

Hope that helps, you certainly do ask the hard to answer questions. ;)
noot noot
Last edited by Ralign on Jun 20, 2019, 5:26:35 AM
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Protax010 wrote:
Ralign do you recommend this build to a new player like me?
I currently run a physical Cyclone build, but I like to see some more action on my screen.

A friend off mine recommend this build:
https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/2285205/page/1

Yours is better optimized for 3.7?



Hi thanks for taking a look at my guide. If you're looking for a little more pizzazz, you've certainly made the right choice in considering Cast on Crit.

At their heart, CoC builds are simple to start but difficult to optimize. My setup has the plus side of being significantly cheaper than the guide you've linked and is also more up-to date.

If you are looking to fully understand how CoC works you may need to spend some time doing a bit of research and getting PoB running. Otherwise, I can give you the one rule of thumb when making a CoC build:

Never exceed 6 APS on your cyclone (there is an exception but when you get to that point you'll know what to do)

If you let me know what kind of budget you are looking at and whether you are familiar with PoB, I can also spend some time walking you through the mechanics and what gear to get via Discord. Please let me know if you would be interested.
noot noot
Is this a build I can easily switch to from my current setup (https://pastebin.com/g6NhtXwu)? I'm pretty interested in the way that you have your build set up. For reference, my max budget is around 3-4 exalts.
Jesus Christ this guide is comprehensive, thanks for putting the effort in! I cleared shaper with basic gear yesterday and I’ve been looking at ways to increase the survivability, this gives me a ton of options. I am hesitant to swap out herald of ice but what you mentioned about the cheaper watcher’s eye really makes sense.

Thank you!

PS light of lunaris is so damn good with arcane swiftness, I had forgotten about this interaction.
What level would you swap to this build? at 46 without the items/stats it just doesnt proc enough imo. wondering if cast while channeling would be better until a higher level and gear. Or just use different gems for dmg and swapping to this once I have the items and tree filled out more.
Normal mobs it mows down fine..its the yellow mobs and bosses that I just dont have the dmg/leech yet

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