shavronne's wrappings imbalanced

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casval776 wrote:

Um, what? If you're running a PA build, you're running at max 35% of your HP at all times. Chaos damage is even moreso a threat at that point because your HP is ridiculously low. If you're running PA, you're obviously not picking up life nodes either, you're pumping as much into your ES as you can. So, it only makes sense that this item would be the perfect answer to the PA problem: Chaos damage.

Other builds can get away without it because they're picking up as much chaos res as they can in their gear or have absurdly more defenses to deal with it: not having 65% HP reserved at all times.

This item doesn't make CI any less powerful either. People seem to have the idea that ever since the ES nerf on CI, it's total garbage now. Why was it so popular before? Because you didn't have to maintain good equips to achieve high ES. You actually have to work for your equips now instead of picking up any PoS item with ES and reaching 4K with ease. This item isn't a replacement for CI nor is it better than CI, it's a niche item. The unique mod on the item is the only real reason to pick it up since the other stats are only decent.

Said from the guy who joined in OB or late CB(If not mult).
CI was strong in CB Youcouldbe surviable with average gear but subpar to life build and competetive with good gear. Now it is not only gives marginal benefits, I want at least ability to run rightous fire with CI as compenstion the least. You haven't answered my question what is better having 200 extra base temporary health(aka ES) which is useless against chaos damage or have all your ES (2k min) work against alldamage types?

If you want it make really usefull for low life but not abused by every other non CI/EB build using ES as optional protection. Add effect "while you not on low life your ES becomes 1" This is drawback and buff making low life builds viable at same time. Not just look I'm lvl 100 guy with 150 str and 406 hp(yes "ephemeral edge" and "eye ofchayula included") with CI wanna be build,but instead questionable chaos imunity which has how much synergies (Darkscorn and blood rage?) you get 115% more spell damage, with low life bonuses. As for ES you reach.(Btwyou can reach set parameters to sustain 460% burning damage on lvl aroud 64-66.
Oh and this unique with 20% quality allready gives 660 base ES,get good focus and you are self sustainable. Unlike CI you don't need to worry where to take your damage because you have already.

I asked for draw backs for normal builds, no losing roughly 600 ES to counter and get those 2000 extra ES actually work against chaos damage is not drawback,It is direct upgrade.

I don't Like that this unique just turns low life builds "weaker" CI build without neither compromising their offence nor

As for normal HP/ES build I don't care losing 400-600 ES to stop get damage directly from my life.

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Keyen wrote:

I agree. And the only real problem is the "HELLO, DOUBLE DAMAGE" on righteous fire.

It's way too strong. Not the chest itself.

If you want that RF damage you need to spend a LOT of points just getting regen so in the end you wont have a lot more damage than a character going for no regen nodes and instead is taking normal damage nodes. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mLBeEomNBMk that is a lvl 83 RF templar still doing less dps than my lvl 73 witch not using RF.

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B_TAHKE wrote:

Said from the guy who joined in OB or late CB(If not mult).

Since when did how long you played the game make any difference? If that is what you have to fall back on when you can answer an argument maybe you just should be quiet.

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B_TAHKE wrote:

If you want it make really usefull for low life but not abused by every other non CI/EB build using ES as optional protection. Add effect "while you not on low life your ES becomes 1" This is drawback and buff making low life builds viable at same time. ...

This would not change anything because the factor that makes this armor OP is that it effectively gives you all the benefits of a low life build that is based on a very low base HP for just one mediocre drawback. No one will use this armor and not be on low life anyway because why should you give up 2 auras.

The real question is:
High end ES chest + CI vs shavronne´s + purity + haste + pain attunement (+rightous fire) + benefit from low life mods on items

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B_TAHKE wrote:

Said from the guy who joined in OB or late CB(If not mult).

Stopped caring at this point.
Time played != smarts.
Nice try though.

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B_TAHKE wrote:

CI was strong in CB Youcouldbe surviable with average gear but subpar to life build and competetive with good gear. Now it is not only gives marginal benefits, I want at least ability to run rightous fire with CI as compenstion the least. You haven't answered my question what is better having 200 extra base temporary health(aka ES) which is useless against chaos damage or have all your ES (2k min) work against alldamage types?

I'm aware CI was stronger in CB. I am using the official forums and I know how to query Google and Youtube. Thank you for your priceless insight into the obvious.

The simple answer: it doesn't fucking matter. Like I said before now, which you seemed to completely overlook, only two builds really stack that much (2k+) ES: Pain Attunement and CI. CI has no threat of chaos damage. Pain Attunement was suicide simply because of chaos damage.

You can stack ES on a Templar but with only 2 close clusters, which don't come close to the nodes Witch/Shadow has easy access to, you're better off dipping lower into the Marauder tree for more Life.

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B_TAHKE wrote:

If you want it make really usefull for low life but not abused by every other non CI/EB build using ES as optional protection. Add effect "while you not on low life your ES becomes 1" This is drawback and buff making low life builds viable at same time. Not just look I'm lvl 100 guy with 150 str and 406 hp(yes "ephemeral edge" and "eye ofchayula included") with CI wanna be build,but instead questionable chaos imunity which has how much synergies (Darkscorn and blood rage?) you get 115% more spell damage, with low life bonuses. As for ES you reach.(Btwyou can reach set parameters to sustain 460% burning damage on lvl aroud 64-66.

It's not abused by every other class. You're missing the fucking point. It's a chestpiece, a vital piece of equipment people typically rely on for Armor, Evasion, ES, Resists, Life, and a plethora of other defensive bonuses. The unique chest gives decent ES and that's pretty much it. The unique mod is the only benefit to this chest over other rare ES chests you can craft on your own.

This chest:
1) Diminishes the threat of Chaos damage to PA builds
2) Has no life
3) Has no Armor/Evasion
4) Has less ES than you could get on a crafted chest
5) Is a rare unique

The mob is the ONLY reason to get it and it's ONLY obscenely useful to low-life builds.

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B_TAHKE wrote:

Oh and this unique with 20% quality allready gives 660 base ES,get good focus and you are self sustainable. Unlike CI you don't need to worry where to take your damage because you have already.

Your broken English makes this hard to understand.

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B_TAHKE wrote:

I asked for draw backs for normal builds, no losing roughly 600 ES to counter and get those 2000 extra ES actually work against chaos damage is not drawback,It is direct upgrade.

The drawbacks for normal builds are that this chest doesn't compliment normal builds nor does it have any other advantages aside from that one mod. If you're a Marauder/Templar/Duelist, you're already hunting for Chaos res on your gear to go with your ridiculously high HP. It's more than possible to maintain 75% Chaos Res from gear alone. Toss in a flask and you can go with so much less.

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B_TAHKE wrote:

I don't Like that this unique just turns low life builds "weaker" CI build without neither compromising their offence nor

As for normal HP/ES build I don't care losing 400-600 ES to stop get damage directly from my life.

You're already hunting for Chaos res on your gear. Let's stop and pretend like you didn't just start playing yesterday. Let's assume you're actually leveled enough to wear this chest. If your chaos res is -60% and you're actively playing maps and surviving, chaos damage was never a problem to you in the first place. So how does this chest exactly benefit you? Losing the innate resistances of your chestpiece, higher ES, better armor/evasion, and possible life to mitigate damage from an element you didn't have a problem with in the first place?

This chest isn't a gamebreaker. It's specifically designed for low-life builds that, before now, didn't work. This isn't the holy grail, it's a niche item.

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Droggeltasse wrote:

The real question is:
High end ES chest + CI vs shavronne´s + purity + haste + pain attunement (+rightous fire) + benefit from low life mods on items

I am playing a lvl 73 PA (Yay I can write PA and people will understand what it means) witch and I am using purity (blood magic and reduced mana), discipline and clarity (reduced mana). That is just 1 more aura than a CI build could do.

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Grildrak wrote:

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Keyen wrote:

I agree. And the only real problem is the "HELLO, DOUBLE DAMAGE" on righteous fire.

It's way too strong. Not the chest itself.

If you want that RF damage you need to spend a LOT of points just getting regen so in the end you wont have a lot more damage than a character going for no regen nodes and instead is taking normal damage nodes. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mLBeEomNBMk that is a lvl 83 RF templar still doing less dps than my lvl 73 witch not using RF.

Shock you don't. 3 nodes in the center(no need to pick life and vitality aura. is 2.7% life regeneration.
lvl 100 with 150 str is 625 health, ephemerial edge plus eye of chayula , 438 health.
80% resistances with purity 88 burnig damage per second. Inner force is 114 burning damage per second. ES required to sustain with zealot oath is 4213. With 200% increased ES passives and gear it is like good focus shield and shevrone itself.(achievable lvl 60) (now just add all other gear and you have pretty good ES) (you can even run hatred and purity of your hp eventually with reduced mana support).
P.S. Araku tiki is notbad substitude despite 30-50 additional hp you gain alot health regenereation from it. Upto the point with average roll of 40 health and without ephmeral edge you need less ES with araku tiki.

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Grildrak wrote:

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Droggeltasse wrote:

The real question is:
High end ES chest + CI vs shavronne´s + purity + haste + pain attunement (+rightous fire) + benefit from low life mods on items

I am playing a lvl 73 PA (Yay I can write PA and people will understand what it means) witch and I am using purity (blood magic and reduced mana), discipline and clarity (reduced mana). That is just 1 more aura than a CI build could do.

I find this to be a little odd. I'm running 4 auras (Hatred, Wrath, Discipline, Grace) on my CI toon right now. all with reduced mana of course.

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casval776 wrote:

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Grildrak wrote:

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Droggeltasse wrote:

The real question is:
High end ES chest + CI vs shavronne´s + purity + haste + pain attunement (+rightous fire) + benefit from low life mods on items

I am playing a lvl 73 PA (Yay I can write PA and people will understand what it means) witch and I am using purity (blood magic and reduced mana), discipline and clarity (reduced mana). That is just 1 more aura than a CI build could do.

I find this to be a little odd. I'm running 4 auras (Hatred, Wrath, Discipline, Grace) on my CI toon right now. all with reduced mana of course.

Ok looking a little at it stuff could be improved if I had that chest. But as it is now I want as close to 35% as possible and I also want to be able to go max hp for chaos areas without having to drop any super important aura. Clarity and discipline is really important so I have to use them on mana leaving purity with its fixed % based cost nice to take me to 34% hp. I could probably replace it with some none % based auras but it is hard as the costs of them will change depending on levels but it is worth looking into.

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SEXYSUPERSATAN wrote:

double the ES, chaos resist, life

the only thing this unique has going for it is its chaos damage mod (which, granted, is very strong)

Compared to this or something simular with or without CI, one no one can seriously say shavronne's is OP. Shavronne's is just good for 1 kind of build, low life. And that kind of build is as good as impossible for HC as it is now. It needed some kind of help, unfortunately I don't think 1 unique rare 30 exalted chest is enough to fix the problem.

I feel like I should probably provide some figures in here to help in viewing this unique in perspective with regards to RF, PA, this unique and Kaoms Heart.

Currently, a Kaom's Heart + Taryn Shiver build can do 5 x 2.5k DPS with Freezing Pulse.
This is with 8.7k maximum HP and 254.7 HP regen/s

My current RF build without Shravonne's can deal 5 x 2.26k DPS with Freezing Pulse.
This is with 2k HP and 8.4k ES, and has 19 ES regen/s with RF activated.

I think we can all agree that taking bigger risks should equate to bigger rewards.

That is not the case here however with the Kaom's Heart build dealing higher DPS as well as having higher survivability due to a higher overall effective HP, not to mention the ability to negate stun and status ailment effects with such a high HP.


Now, fast forward to using Shavronne's Wrappings.

With this chest, I will be able to use pain attunement. However, I will end up sacrificing up to 400+ base ES from my current ES chest (below) which equates to about 1.5k overall ES, which is massive.



It is true that I will manage to save some points from having to take HP nodes, but dropping these HP nodes (which are fitness nodes which have +str) will also result in a slight drop in terms of spell damage, and the points that I save will not actually go to DPS nodes, (1 will go to elementalist, the other will go to PA) but will instead go to ES nodes in order to maintain my survivability. Haste is an aura that I will use but will only result in a slight DPS increase as I'll be dropping the nimbleness cluster, such is my need for ES.

At the end of the day, I expect to have about 1-1.2k HP, 7.5k ES, and with PA and RF on, about 5 x 2.7k DPS on Freezing Pulse, which I think we can agree is now somewhat more balanced compared to Kaom's + Taryn's Shiver as this time I will have higher DPS, but still a lower survivability.

In other words, at least this time, greater risk will equate to greater reward.