shavronne's wrappings imbalanced

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Kunaak wrote:

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Keyen wrote:

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Kunaak wrote:

but also allows you the potential of a far greater health pool.

Yeah, let's get HP nodes + ES nodes, we have 500 passives points after all!

I dont see why this needs to be said, since its obvious.... but,

this item makes it so chaos damage doesnt go through energy shield, meaning, your energy shield gets used up, then your HP - just like normal damage.
which means chaos damage is treated the same as every other form of damage with this item.

now, knowing that - does any other build focus on getting 10k HP and 10k ES?

no.... every build focuses on one thing, tons of HP, or tons of ES, and whatever extra you get from either pool comes from gear, or whatever skill point you had to take on the way to some node you were really after.

now, since no build does that - why would you go after excess ES nodes if you had this, when HP nodes are fine and more effective?
in short, you wouldnt.

your treating this item as if it was CI - its not.
your not gonna have 1 HP, so why go after excess ES nodes with this item?
its not CI - treating CI damage, as normal damage, means you really should get chaos resist, and HP, not treat it as if you had 1 HP and are forced into ES nodes by default...

which you dont need 500 points for......

Or you do treat it as better version of CI and gain HUGE benefits.
Low life (vitality aura+bloodmagic support)+red beakx2+rightheous fire+ES regeneration + few life regen nodes + pain Attunement + any spell = WIN. Just to make sure you hit often use Arc as it always hits or just a crowd favorite FP. I don't see any other build ever outdoing this one.

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gonzaw wrote:

It does seem "strong" if you are an ES user, but yeah, CI still makes you immune to chaos damage, this doesn't.

Thus, if people use chaos on you, your ES will still keep going down and down and down

Still plenty of incentive to take CI

I see very little incentive to take CI as it is. This armour makes CI even more redundant than it was.

This is a game breaker particularly when used with a righteous fire build. I'm currently running around with a RF build and this is exactly the item I needed.

If you want some really good reasons why this is imba then think of it being used with the following:

Springleaf 6% life regen on low life
Araku Tiki 1% life regen on low life

Yes these items plus the chest *gimp* your max ES a little, but it wouldn't be hard to maintain close to 9% ES regen per second with 0 point invested into regen passives (2% roughly from Vitality + passive aura buffs). Invest into the HP regen passives and your can get to near on 15% ES regen per second. So I only need 4.5K ES to regen as much "life" as an 8.5K HP character can. I don't see much of a down side to this given I can also trigger low life passives and almost definately run around with Righteous Fire up for as long as I please.

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auLansalot wrote:

I don't see much of a down side to this given I can also trigger low life passives and almost definately run around with Righteous Fire up for as long as I please.

Im running a low life build atm. Chaos damage completely destroys me, even after I got all the reachable life node. With this armor, I can easily turn those life nodes into ES and have much better result. My defense against chaos went from 800 life to 300 life and 4k+? ES. Also, I can completely forget about HP mode on my other items. High res items without hp is so much cheaper.

I really dont see how anyone can argue against the imbalance of this armor.

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auLansalot wrote:

. Invest into the HP regen passives and your can get to near on 15% ES regen per second.

I'm a bit dumb, can you link a template?

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I dont see why this needs to be said, since its obvious.... but,

this item makes it so chaos damage doesnt go through energy shield, meaning, your energy shield gets used up, then your HP - just like normal damage.
which means chaos damage is treated the same as every other form of damage with this item.

now, knowing that - does any other build focus on getting 10k HP and 10k ES?

no.... every build focuses on one thing, tons of HP, or tons of ES, and whatever extra you get from either pool comes from gear, or whatever skill point you had to take on the way to some node you were really after.

now, since no build does that - why would you go after excess ES nodes if you had this, when HP nodes are fine and more effective?
in short, you wouldnt.

your treating this item as if it was CI - its not.
your not gonna have 1 HP, so why go after excess ES nodes with this item?
its not CI - treating CI damage, as normal damage, means you really should get chaos resist, and HP, not treat it as if you had 1 HP and are forced into ES nodes by default...

which you dont need 500 points for......

1) The chest armor is 500~ ES. It's good, but far from THAT good. There is some 800-900 ES chest around, and i'm pretty sure if you can afford shavronne, you can also afford a mirror + 2 exalted. So, with something like 200% ES bonus and a 800 ES chest, you get 900 ES bonus. It's better than a 900 hp pool because:
-You get more ES from regeneration
-You get more ES /sec from leech.
-It regens by itself (not like hp).

With 250% ES bonus and a 900 ES chest, you get 1400 ES bonus.
2) You are immune chaos. And it's not "we don't care we have plenty of hp/ES", the fact is, if you don't have to get 135% chaos resist, you can have something else, something better. Chaos damage rapes, and this chest doesn't help you at all.
3) If you have a good hp base, you can't use righteous fire, which is THE ONLY REASON TO GET THIS CHEST. This chest + pain attunment is good, but not gamebreaker. This chest + pain attunment + RF is broken.

This Item * Zealots Oath + Pain Attunement + Bloodmagic/Vitality = BÄM

Really I mean, the problem with Zealots Oath or quite similar Ghost Reaver was that you only refill your ES, while Chaos-Damage was still able to drop your HP. Instead of Vitality you could also use Purity and drop some elemental resistance for Chaos.

This Chest just kills all the downsides of ES. So why is it better than CI? First CI needs a heavy investment in ES and the problem is most ES-Nodes suck and are widely spread. This chest-piece allows for a combination of ES + HP so instead of traveling the whole skilltree for some ES-Nodes you can easily combine ES and HP-Nodes and with more HP you are also less vulnerable from Stuns and Status-Effects.

The next part is that this chest allows for the usage of a lot of things that CI simply chancels out. A Low-Life-Build is totally possible with that item and still chancels the danger of chaos-damage.

Exspecially from the templer-side you can invest into a combination of armor, es and life. I think it would even be possible to use Bloodmagic so... it is opening up a lot of interesting possibilities.

In the end I don't think that it is really a replacement for CI because CI has different role. This Chest is actually opening up far more options than simply replacing CI. CI being crap right now is not really related to this armor, because CI is quite useless right now on it's own.

Like i said in the other thread: This item NEEDS a drawback, and "Cannot be used with Zealot's Oath" seems like the one.

Just add -(20-40%)to chaos resistance and it will be balanced.

And well... the best ES-Chest would have about 710 ES without quality, while this one has 430 ES without quality. With best quality you would get 515 from the unique and the best chest could have about 785. Not sure if there are any more local mods, but since they nerfed the mods for ES together with CI I think topping 800 on a chest isn't possible anymore. And getting such an armor would be a whole different story.

So I don't think the ES-drawback is as large as it seems, exspecially considering that the largest piece of ES comes from the shield.

delete :\

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Xendran wrote:

Like i said in the other thread: This item NEEDS a drawback, and "Cannot be used with Zealot's Oath" seems like the one.

That would kinda remove the point of this chestpiece in the first place. It is meant to be used with Zealot's Oath. Anyone wanting to use this chestpiece without CI and without ZO is asking for trouble.

Chaos DoTs like poison arrow and viper strike charges will prevent ES from regen-ing without any flasks to counter it. You'd perpetually have to walk away for 12+2 seconds whenever you get viper striked just to recover ES.

I've used CI when it was non-chaos immune and it was impossible and downright frustrating to play.

If anything, the downside should be reduced energy shield recovery instead of increased energy shield recovery.