Hierophants reworked Nerf or Buff?

Bah, it's like arguing with a wall. Whoever don't want to see the maths will not see them, no matter if you slap their whole face with maths. People here see "2 "less", only 1 "more", it's a nerf" without taking a minimal look at actual numeric values.

So ok, you're right, you've been nerfed. Maths say the opposite, PoB says the opposite, common sense says the opposite, but all that is shit and you're right...

Loosing a totem and reduced totem damage - solid nerf.
Getting two totems at a cast - a buff to cost of casting. nerf to totem placement choice.
New support gem penalties reduce it's viability for pure totem builds.

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Lykkoith wrote:

Bah, it's like arguing with a wall. Whoever don't want to see the maths will not see them, no matter if you slap their whole face with maths. People here see "2 "less", only 1 "more", it's a nerf" without taking a minimal look at actual numeric values.

So ok, you're right, you've been nerfed. Maths say the opposite, PoB says the opposite, common sense says the opposite, but all that is shit and you're right...

You didn't include all the multipliers in your math. It also doesn't help that we don't have all the numbers but have to guesstimate.

Can you potentially achieve higher numbers, sure - but you're not gonna be running the standard 4/5 totems boosted by a 6 link the way you would before, and we don't know how difficult getting the enchant will be. We did know exactly when we could complete the second ascendency.

Losing a totem hurts, just imagine how much better it would have been for no ascendency change and still being able to get the enchant ;)

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BlaqWolf wrote:

Loosing a totem and reduced totem damage - solid nerf.
Getting two totems at a cast - a buff to cost of casting. nerf to totem placement choice.
New support gem penalties reduce it's viability for pure totem builds.

read the gem again, imagine a secondary setup, recalc and try a new post

-Damage: About the same (far higher than before if you use support totems that make your main setup do more damage like cold snap + bone chill combined with main cold setup skill like GC etc)

-Survivability: Far higher since you place the totems faster(3 clicks instead of 5) and can move. You also end up with 1 more total totem than before the patch for extra regen/mana regen and if you choose to go for decoy totems for support you take way way less damage. Yes, even from end game bosses since the 10% damage reduction still applies even if they don't feel obliged to hit the decoys)

-Clear speed: Higher for those that couldn't oneshot all mobs with 1 totem before. Now it is 1 click move on even for them.

What's about crazy builds?

Plan to use 4 different totems, all linked with the new multiple totem support gem.

4 base totem, each +2 totems -> 12 totems in total.

Set 3 glacial, 3 arc, 3 bladefall 3 ... totems with 4 clicks. 12% life regenaration makes you stable.

Later you can improve - there is devouring loop for 5 link on finger, or additional support gems on shaper items so you could have even 5 links.

Addional this wood of totems tanks very good.


At 12 totems, bonus will be 36% over compensating the loss from multiple totems.

The new gem multiplier wasn't considered in the damage calculations... because nodoby changed the setup of the damage totems! If you see a new support gem and you automatically think that it's for your dps totems, then the problem is not that the changes nerf the build, the problem is that you don't know how to optimize your build. If you take bad decisions, you'll get bad results, plain and simple.

- If you have 5 totems and add that support, you'll have 7. That's a 40% more.
- Simply the support that you have to take out from the setup to make room for Multiple Totems, probably gives you more than that 40%
- If not, the own multiplier from Multiple Totems will end the job.

So why in the hell would you put that gem into your main setup? It's common sense. Let me explain with colours (Sesame-Street incoming):
A. You get a passive that adds you more damage the more totems you get. It counts all your totems and affects all your totems, main ones or support ones
B. You have a gem that allows you to have more totems, but greatly lowers the damage of the supported totems only

Used wisely, you're dropping the damage from your support totems (if they do any damage, in the first place), what is negligible if it even exists. And in exchange, you're raising the damage of your true dps sources! Even if your support totems deal damage too, they'll get a (surely) 30% less from MultipleTotems at lv20, and then regain 21-27% more from the new passive (depending on how wisely you play). Losing a 3-9% damage on supports to gain 21-27% on main totems... it doesn't look like a nerf to me.

And on top of this:

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arknath wrote:

-Survivability: Far higher since you place the totems faster(3 clicks instead of 5) and can move. You also end up with 1 more total totem than before the patch for extra regen/mana regen and if you choose to go for decoy totems for support you take way way less damage. Yes, even from end game bosses since the 10% damage reduction still applies even if they don't feel obliged to hit the decoys)

-Clear speed: Higher for those that couldn't oneshot all mobs with 1 totem before. Now it is 1 click move on even for them.

Understand it or don't do it, but if you aren't capable of at least maintain your dps with these changes, then you shouldn't play totems at all.

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Bone2flesh wrote:

-1 totem from ascendancy +1 totem from gear = balances out.

Add to that +3% MORE damage per totem = buff. The number in POB will be higher.

If you use the exact same setup as last league you with a +1 to totems shield you will dish out more damage faster.

By the way no one is forcing you to use the new totem support gem.

My setup last league was Trolltimber Spire. Except on my RAT.

Ooops.

You assume that we can balance the -1 Totem out with gear, but that's not necessarily true. For anyone using RAT or TTSpire, this is a clear nerf. Even if we compensate with support totems, its reduced QOL (comparable damage but more hassle, increased gear dependency).

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Fawkse wrote:

You assume that we can balance the -1 Totem out with gear, but that's not necessarily true.

Ok, let's say it's one totem less for some builds.

Will it somehow render Hierophant useless? Nope, there's power to spare even if we disregard the damage compensation he got.

Will it kill totems in general? Nope, Hierophant got popular as a totemist only a few patches back and totems were far from dead before that.

CoC nerf complaints were warranted because it pretty much killed the whole thing. Frenzy charge complaints were warranted because it was an unnecessary nerf to right side casters. None of these totem changes will do anything in the grand scale, probably not even locally.

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Fawkse wrote:

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Bone2flesh wrote:

-1 totem from ascendancy +1 totem from gear = balances out.

Add to that +3% MORE damage per totem = buff. The number in POB will be higher.

If you use the exact same setup as last league you with a +1 to totems shield you will dish out more damage faster.

By the way no one is forcing you to use the new totem support gem.

My setup last league was Trolltimber Spire. Except on my RAT.

Ooops.

You assume that we can balance the -1 Totem out with gear, but that's not necessarily true. For anyone using RAT or TTSpire, this is a clear nerf. Even if we compensate with support totems, its reduced QOL (comparable damage but more hassle, increased gear dependency).

If you choose to play a sub optimal totem build that is on you and not on the changes.

As it stands right now for optimal build and gearing this is a buff.

i don't know but when i run my arc totem build through new PoB i got damage buff for around 40K DPS per totem.

PoB says 3 totems active- looks OK.

so...maybe a buff?