Hierophants reworked Nerf or Buff?

Question to everyone.. Is this +1 totem craft thing a veiled model, or new regular craft?

It will depend on how the totem support gem will work. How do the extra totems get counted?

Imagine this: Run Your 4 link boots with: +2 totem support - searing bond - shockwave totem - decoy totem. Thats 7 extra totems, or 21% more damage for Your (unaffected!) main totems. On top. So say You run 5 totems already (1 base 1 AB 1 hiero 1 shield 1 soul mantle).... that'd be 36% more damage. With +2 from support? 42% and 7 dmg totems....Fiddly? Sure.... but workable, maybe.

Concrete maths have been already described in this thread, if you make the effort to read before posting you'll see that these changes have almost zero impact in terms of dps.

Just for those who don't like maths, just think this:
- Damage bonus per totem is a flat value: the first totem will give you a 3% more damage; the 5th will give you exactly the same.
- Losing a totem is a relative value: it's not the same to lose a totem when you only have 2, than losing a totem when you have 6.

So the more totems you have, the less impact these changes have. With 4 main totems + 3 supports (considering that now you can cast all 3 on a single click), the damage will be almost the same than before with 5 main + 1 support. If you manage get the veiled mod (that is, 5 main + 3 supports), you'll actually gain dps. And that's only 5+3, not even talk about 7+7 as Fawkse said.

As I see it, it this is a buff to hiero, provided you can get the same number of totems using new mods on gear. In the end all we care about are the DPS numbers, and how we get there shouldnt really matter much. Moving +1 totem from the hiero ascendancy to gear doesnt change the damage scaling on hiero.

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John_Ra wrote:

% dmg sounds laughable trade for 1 totem. Its so laughable, you literally loosing 100% dmg from full totem then get overall +12% dmg instead. Eat this, Hiero! Ah! Happy?! No? We have somth else for you!

That's... not how math works, literally at all.

Going from 4 totems to 5 would be a 25% boost. So having 12% more damage at 4 totems is just under halfway to having 5 totems under the old system.

Is this a nerf? Absolutely, +1 totems would be better than what the node currently offers. Is it a "huge" nerf? Nah.

Personally I'm looking forward to additional sources of +totems on items

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codetaku wrote:

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John_Ra wrote:

% dmg sounds laughable trade for 1 totem. Its so laughable, you literally loosing 100% dmg from full totem then get overall +12% dmg instead. Eat this, Hiero! Ah! Happy?! No? We have somth else for you!

That's... not how math works, literally at all.

Going from 4 totems to 5 would be a 25% boost. So having 12% more damage at 4 totems is just under halfway to having 5 totems under the old system.

Is this a nerf? Absolutely, +1 totems would be better than what the node currently offers. Is it a "huge" nerf? Nah.

Personally I'm looking forward to additional sources of +totems on items

In theory math here looks not bad, but I really doubt it will be good in practice. It will take a lot more effort from now just to get the same DPS than before, and to get good enough gear, cap res, and so on..

Now totems migrated to RNG on gear and to much later on gameplay timeline, instead of they were reliable on tree and were strong and fast to get after just 2 first easiest labs.

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John_Ra wrote:

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codetaku wrote:

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John_Ra wrote:

% dmg sounds laughable trade for 1 totem. Its so laughable, you literally loosing 100% dmg from full totem then get overall +12% dmg instead. Eat this, Hiero! Ah! Happy?! No? We have somth else for you!

That's... not how math works, literally at all.

Going from 4 totems to 5 would be a 25% boost. So having 12% more damage at 4 totems is just under halfway to having 5 totems under the old system.

Is this a nerf? Absolutely, +1 totems would be better than what the node currently offers. Is it a "huge" nerf? Nah.

Personally I'm looking forward to additional sources of +totems on items

In theory math here looks not bad, but I really doubt it will be good in practice. It will take a lot more effort from now just to get the same DPS than before, and to get good enough gear, cap res, and so on..

Now totems migrated to RNG on gear and to much later on gameplay timeline, instead of they were reliable on tree and were strong and fast to get after just 2 first easiest labs.

Lot more effort? How so? You even place down 2 totems at a time now. With 3 clicks you place 4 main totems and 2 support totems (non soul-mantle build) as before you had to do 5 clicks to get your damage out. Seems like less effort to me. Heck you even get more time to move around, more regen and more mana regen than before.

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arknath wrote:

Lot more effort? How so? You even place down 2 totems at a time now. With 3 clicks you place 4 main totems and 2 support totems (non soul-mantle build) as before you had to do 5 clicks to get your damage out. Seems like less effort to me. Heck you even get more time to move around, more regen and more mana regen than before.

That's so tiny improvement what I`m calling as not relevant, sorry.

Also not actually see this as improvement, just because of totems being spreaded to area are better.

I must also point out the fact that not only does the standard spell totem/ranged attack totem have a natural negative multiplier, but so does the new totem support gem.

So even by trying to get more totems, you're getting less damage because multipliers factor way more than the additive increase/reduce.

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SeCKSEgai wrote:

I must also point out the fact that not only does the standard spell totem/ranged attack totem have a natural negative multiplier, but so does the new totem support gem.

So even by trying to get more totems, you're getting less damage because multipliers factor way more than the additive increase/reduce.

-1 totem from ascendancy +1 totem from gear = balances out.

Add to that +3% MORE damage per totem = buff. The number in POB will be higher.

If you use the exact same setup as last league you with a +1 to totems shield you will dish out more damage faster.

By the way no one is forcing you to use the new totem support gem.