What don't you like about Grim Dawn

You completely missed the point on my Movespeed comment. Good on ya. It honestly seems like you didn't comprehensively read my comment, so let me elaborate:
1. The cap is very easy to hit.
2. A bunch of items have incidental Movespeed bonuses which feel completely wasted because you're probably at the cap already - for all intents and purposes, that item is missing a stat.
3. Similarly, temporary Buffs that give Movespeed often don't actually increase your speed due to the cap. Feels bad.

I'm not saying it should be uncapped, I'm not saying you should be able to hit 300% on a lazy sunday like in PoE (ew) - I'm saying the cap creates bad experiences. You wouldn't run around with less than 135%, you cannot have more: why even have it as a modifiable stat? Let snares be snares and leave it at that if you don't allow me to have speed buffs.
(and hey, the game would be more difficult if base movespeed was an unmodifiable 120% instead)

Also, did they really nerf the attack speed cap from 200% down to 150%, or did you misremember?

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"They are replaceable and are designed for you to start off with certain consellations early on and later to be changed infavor of more powerfull constelllations"
Replacable indeed. That is pretty much my issue in one word. :)

Turtle was a semi-random name I pulled from memory: Near the end of my playtime, I looked at what other people did for endgame stuff because I wasn't going to get there (yaaawn). Turtle stood out to me as appearing more often than any other starter, and I personally also picked it more often than not. Maybe the meta shifted or whatever, the exact name doesn't matter.

Ultimately the point is that constellation choices were intensely obvious. I focus on Piercing Damage, and there's enough points to grab every relevant constellation. Cut out the bad one for some OA, fill out the rest with defensive stuff. Then, fuck around with a "build order" to hit requirements and respec breakpoints (fiddly shenanigans), and you're done. Your build is barely any different aside from two AoE procs and a bunch of Raw Number. Sweet.

Thematically really neat, constellations are pretty, but it didn't add much to the experience for me. It's fiddly and 90-95% is just a pile of stats you will already have a lot of. It could never have existed and the game would not be meaningfully different.
Last edited by Vipermagi on Nov 21, 2018, 10:32:06 AM
I don't like that Chaos and Vitality damage are apparently the bottom of the barrel in terms of itemization.

But that's about it. Keep in mind that I'm a filthy casual scum. I'm still on my first character (a level 85 Doom Bolt occultist/arcanist in Ultimate, which is supposedly a terrible choice for any player, but I fucking love it) and haven't gotten around to the first expansion yet - and at this rate, I won't be done with Malmouth by the time the next expansion lands. So I'm by no means a power player who hits the level cap and rolls a ton of top-geared alts.

I like that Grim Dawn is slow-paced and invites you to smell the roses and explore. (And yep, if you're a power player with an army of alts, those roses are long dead by then) I don't mind the static maps; it makes the world feel like it was built and planned. Plus, some caves, holes, spawns, etc. don't show up every time on your runs, so you still need to keep your eyes open. Also, I love the emphasis on targeted farming. There's a sick satisfaction in running a circuit for farming specific (and often rare) materials needed to create that nicely-rolled relic, or creating skeleton keys, etc.

GD is a cozy respite from the hectic late-game (or really mid-game nowadays) pacing of PoE. Love/need both.

i dont like to explore the entire maps to not lose an devotion point
my english sux.
All skills on cooldowns.. and lots of narrow locations unlike d2 poe or even d3..
Poe 2.0 new trailers when?
"
3DNeophyte wrote:
I don't like that Chaos and Vitality damage are apparently the bottom of the barrel in terms of itemization.


Vitality is probably the best supported damage type in terms of items, skills, procs, devotions, everything.
Chaos is indeed dog tier, it's been long forgotten.

The most glaring issues of GD are mostly certain mechanics. Just a few, but with a tremendous impact over the gameplay and quite annoying.

First it's the dependency on resist reduction. You either build around it or go home. Crate tried to address it a couple of times, it gets only worse over time.
It concerns enemy powers as well. Resist reduction is the most potent player killer. And this ability is the norm with high tier bosses. Some of them don't even care about overcapped or + to resists, because reasons.

Second it's the implementation of powerful nearly gamebraking mechanics such as shotgunning and stun.
While completely useless in player's hands, stun is one of the ultimate killers when used by monsters. Can't be removed, you either somehow stack the rare stun resistance or just watch your geared to the teeth char dying to stunlock lasting like forever.
Shotgunning is about binary chances for surviving, especially when fighting strong enemies. Lategame you either get tickled, or oneshot. In GD any projectile rolls crits separately and individually.

On the bright side, one needs to play quite a lot to realize how terible certain mechanics are, and mostly late game.
Up to this point he can enjoy game's atmosphere and amazing story line, rich itemization, complex mechanics, build diversity, game pace, rich content.

Overall GD is a pretty good game. It's always about personal preferences, likes and dislikes, but in general it's a very nice oldschool aRPG.
This is a buff © 2016

The Experts ™ 2017
Last edited by torturo on Nov 21, 2018, 3:14:39 PM
"
Vipermagi wrote:
You completely missed the point on my Movespeed comment. Good on ya. It honestly seems like you didn't comprehensively read my comment, so let me elaborate:
1. The cap is very easy to hit.
2. A bunch of items have incidental Movespeed bonuses which feel completely wasted because you're probably at the cap already - for all intents and purposes, that item is missing a stat.
3. Similarly, temporary Buffs that give Movespeed often don't actually increase your speed due to the cap. Feels bad.

I'm not saying it should be uncapped, I'm not saying you should be able to hit 300% on a lazy sunday like in PoE (ew) - I'm saying the cap creates bad experiences. You wouldn't run around with less than 135%, you cannot have more: why even have it as a modifiable stat? Let snares be snares and leave it at that if you don't allow me to have speed buffs.
(and hey, the game would be more difficult if base movespeed was an unmodifiable 120% instead)

Also, did they really nerf the attack speed cap from 200% down to 150%, or did you misremember?

----------
"They are replaceable and are designed for you to start off with certain consellations early on and later to be changed infavor of more powerfull constelllations"
Replacable indeed. That is pretty much my issue in one word. :)

Turtle was a semi-random name I pulled from memory: Near the end of my playtime, I looked at what other people did for endgame stuff because I wasn't going to get there (yaaawn). Turtle stood out to me as appearing more often than any other starter, and I personally also picked it more often than not. Maybe the meta shifted or whatever, the exact name doesn't matter.

Ultimately the point is that constellation choices were intensely obvious. I focus on Piercing Damage, and there's enough points to grab every relevant constellation. Cut out the bad one for some OA, fill out the rest with defensive stuff. Then, fuck around with a "build order" to hit requirements and respec breakpoints (fiddly shenanigans), and you're done. Your build is barely any different aside from two AoE procs and a bunch of Raw Number. Sweet.

Thematically really neat, constellations are pretty, but it didn't add much to the experience for me. It's fiddly and 90-95% is just a pile of stats you will already have a lot of. It could never have existed and the game would not be meaningfully different.


Movement speed is capped for balance of combat since this game focuses on PvM. Even with the cap you can still breeze by 'some' enemies. Therefore allowing a higher movement cap would make the game even easier than it already is.

Attack Speed also needs to be balanced which is why its capped capped from 200% along with the rest of the balancing decisions made for the game. They should cap more things to make it harder. I'm nnot into enforcing handicaps to myself because devs want Ultimate to be easy for people criticizing attack speed and movement caps.

As far as your constellation usage for your build. Mentioning pierce damage and OA is a simplistic outlook to what constellations provide. The end goal is to unlock the skills within the constellations so those skills can complement your characters natural skills. This is the exact same premis with PoE except GD's method allows for more open paths to achieve the same goal. Any buffs inbetween are extra and shouldn't be much of a thought to the decision of unlocking a constellation.

"
torturo wrote:
"
3DNeophyte wrote:
I don't like that Chaos and Vitality damage are apparently the bottom of the barrel in terms of itemization.


Vitality is probably the best supported damage type in terms of items, skills, procs, devotions, everything.
Chaos is indeed dog tier, it's been long forgotten.

The most glaring issues of GD are mostly certain mechanics. Just a few, but with a tremendous impact over the gameplay and quite annoying.

First it's the dependency on resist reduction. You either build around it or go home. Crate tried to address it a couple of times, it gets only worse over time.
It concerns enemy powers as well. Resist reduction is the most potent player killer. And this ability is the norm with high tier bosses. Some of them don't even care about overcapped or + to resists, because reasons.

Second it's the implementation of powerful nearly gamebraking mechanics such as shotgunning and stun.
While completely useless in player's hands, stun is one of the ultimate killers when used by monsters. Can't be removed, you either somehow stack the rare stun resistance or just watch your geared to the teeth char dying to stunlock lasting like forever.
Shotgunning is about binary chances for surviving, especially when fighting strong enemies. Lategame you either get tickled, or oneshot. In GD any projectile rolls crits separately and individually.

On the bright side, one needs to play quite a lot to realize how terible certain mechanics are, and mostly late game.
Up to this point he can enjoy game's atmosphere and amazing story line, rich itemization, complex mechanics, build diversity, game pace, rich content.

Overall GD is a pretty good game. It's always about personal preferences, likes and dislikes, but in general it's a very nice oldschool aRPG.


There are lots of items and skills that focus around vitality and chaos for it to be effective today so thats not true.

The resist reduction bit. Isn't that like saying resistances in general are bothersome and that in any arpg you have to build around it or go home? Neither D2 or PoE do anything different in that regard except GD makes things harder since you not only have to deal with properly specing your character around upping your resistances but you also have to deal will having to actually be more involved with the gameplay since certain enemies will lower your resistances making it easier to kill you. It's already easy enough that with the right equipment and builds, this is simply not any issue. They need to make resistant debuffs even more potent even for high tier players. Aren't the Torment levels supposed to fill in that gap for those wanting more of a challenge vs those that just want casual play since to me Hell in D3 is still just casual just like Ultimate in GD is still casual. As it is with D3 with the right build and paragon levels, you can still solo Torment 13.
Last edited by OblivionLordDio on Nov 22, 2018, 1:57:45 PM
Oh no.

Here I was thinking most problems mentioned in this thread came down to personal preference, and some of them could even be considered a plus, depending on how you look at it.

But you ruined it for me with one word:

"
torturo wrote:
stunlock


This is my #1 most hated reason for player deaths. Something like the pantheon power in PoE that prevents stunlocking of players should be the default behavior in all games, imo.

Few things are as infuriating as mashing buttons helplessly, to no effect, while you watch your character die. I bet every time that happens, some game developer somewhere gets a chill down his spine from all the verbal 'love' I send his way.
____________________________________________________________________________________

- Self-proclaimed king of level 172 budget builds -
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____________________________________________________________________________________
"
...movement speed...


Dude, Viper speaks about the ease of achieving MS cap and lack of efforts involved in the process, but not bashing the very presence of a hard cap.
And yes, he's somehow right on it.

There are players who prefer to work around a mechanic, rather than have it for granted with no efforts.
You don't work around MS in GD, cap just naturally happens.
Personally it never bothered me, but there are different players with different expectations and criterias for what an achievement is.

Edit.

You are wrong about chaos damage. It sucks. Do you know why it does? Lack of sources of resist reduction, just a few to name. Do you remember what was mentioned about RR? Right, you either have it or be the little bitch of Cairn.

According to enemy RR potential. In many of the cases you can't negate it.
First, there are enemies with flat RR. In practice the only way to work around it is absorption and block. How clever.
There's also RR stacking. Yes some mobs apply -% RR which fucking stacks. Good luck.

Basically, what mostly kills a well built char lategame is RR. And this aspect of the game is pissing me off. There are many other ways to balance a game and make it difficult, rather than a cheezy fucking mechanic being the ultimate wunderwaffe in hands of both players and monsters.

BTW one of the few things PoE 1K balance wannabies managed right, is the way RR gets treated in here. Pretty good job.

This is a buff © 2016

The Experts ™ 2017
Last edited by torturo on Nov 22, 2018, 4:31:35 PM
I really don't like the plethora of damage types (and concomitant resistances) in GD. 3-4 damage types is enough. 5 at the most. Having to juggle more resistances than that is annoying, even if it's possible (or unnecessary).

Also, I want more storage space - in-game (i.e. without modifying the game). And 3 playthroughs. :<
Last edited by Exile009 on Nov 22, 2018, 4:46:08 PM

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