Delve Costing Changes

"
Miffy23 wrote:
It stay more or less the same, it only starts feeling really bad when you push way beyond the 300-400 range, before that you still get roughly 1 Delve node per Sulphite node (at good quantity rolls on the maps).

Honestly I believe the reason so many - especially more casual - players are frustrated is because they expected more of an alternative to mapping, instead of a traditional league mechanic deeply connected to mapping.

That hasn't changed compared to previous leagues, you always wanted to aim for high red maps in most leagues. But the attitude has.

Partially it's because of their miscommunication, they advertised delving as a form of Greater Rifts like in D3, which they really aren't.

Part of it is also due to people relying way too heavily on Quarry farming and now being screwed because they were lazy and didn't prepare their Atlas.

Personally enjoying it immensely and consider it one of the best leagues to date.

That's rather subjective.

I too consider it one of the best league to date. I don't want to farm quarry, and I don't know a single thing about Diablo, so I had no expectation. All I know is that I like Delve, it's really working.

So I want to delve, and I want to reach high tier maps to get more sulphite to delve even more. But then I end up at exactly what you're saying, one sulphite deposit per length travelled in the map.

And that's where things get subjective. How do we feel about that ratio? You're okay with it. I guess GGG is too. Personally, I would have preferred more freedom in my delve exploration. I wish I could reach things appearing on the side in less than 6 maps.
Since it seems like GGG actually takes the time to read a lot of responses, I'll go ahead and make one myself.

I've never been one to push end-game content because I've never liked the system of sustaining maps. I have close to 750 hours in the game and have never even killed Shaper. And you know what? I don't really have a desire to. I say this to say that people enjoy the game a lot of different ways. When Delve was first released, I was hooked. I made it into the 80s with two characters barely touching maps and was loving it.

However, after this recent patch I would have to agree with many other posters that if now suddenly feels like GGG is gating what many see as alternate post-story content behind existing post-story content. Like with maps, I have little desire to go deeper than 100-150 depth, but with current rates I need to run 2 maps of equal level for 1 short delve. It sounds like this next patch will make this even worse. It seems like people who are not pushing top tier content are being punished for wanting to play the game the way they enjoy it.

Also, call me crazy, but infinite mining of sulphite in a zone called Quarry kind of thematically made sense to me.
"
eternalbeta wrote:

However, after this recent patch I would have to agree with many other posters that if now suddenly feels like GGG is gating what many see as alternate post-story content behind existing post-story content. Like with maps, I have little desire to go deeper than 100-150 depth, but with current rates I need to run 2 maps of equal level for 1 short delve. It sounds like this next patch will make this even worse. It seems like people who are not pushing top tier content are being punished for wanting to play the game the way they enjoy it.

Also, call me crazy, but infinite mining of sulphite in a zone called Quarry kind of thematically made sense to me.


I felt the same way about Quarry!
Also, for perspective, after the latest patch I'm seeing these stats:
T14 Map, alched, vaaled, 122% IIQ total, Monster level:81, 638 Sulphite gained
Delve depth 214, Monster level 79, 2 nearest paths I can take: 915 sulphite and 2169
And what is really irritating is that neither of those paths is down. I have around 5k in sulphite expenditure just to progress down to depth 217. And these are at monster depths TWO LEVELS lower than the map I'm doing. I honestly cannot believe that anyone at GGG did any sort of math on this at all. I think they panicked, took something that sounded good to them and pushed it out to live. TEN T14 alched, vaaled maps with a max rolled biscos to get to the next section of my delve. But wait! I got 1 T12 map to drop in that T14 map so I'm not even able to sustain that...
"
hogscraper wrote:
"
eternalbeta wrote:

However, after this recent patch I would have to agree with many other posters that if now suddenly feels like GGG is gating what many see as alternate post-story content behind existing post-story content. Like with maps, I have little desire to go deeper than 100-150 depth, but with current rates I need to run 2 maps of equal level for 1 short delve. It sounds like this next patch will make this even worse. It seems like people who are not pushing top tier content are being punished for wanting to play the game the way they enjoy it.

Also, call me crazy, but infinite mining of sulphite in a zone called Quarry kind of thematically made sense to me.


I felt the same way about Quarry!
Also, for perspective, after the latest patch I'm seeing these stats:
T14 Map, alched, vaaled, 122% IIQ total, Monster level:81, 638 Sulphite gained
Delve depth 214, Monster level 79, 2 nearest paths I can take: 915 sulphite and 2169
And what is really irritating is that neither of those paths is down. I have around 5k in sulphite expenditure just to progress down to depth 217. And these are at monster depths TWO LEVELS lower than the map I'm doing. I honestly cannot believe that anyone at GGG did any sort of math on this at all. I think they panicked, took something that sounded good to them and pushed it out to live. TEN T14 alched, vaaled maps with a max rolled biscos to get to the next section of my delve. But wait! I got 1 T12 map to drop in that T14 map so I'm not even able to sustain that...


Your numbers are way off.
I've been very consistently getting 800-1300 sulphite per node from t14-t16 maps with high IIQ, while a regular short node at depth 300 costs roughly 700 sulphite (and it caps at 802 sulphite coste iirc for short nodes).

I've also found that they delivered on what they promised - it doesn't really matter whether you run T14 or T16 maps, just the quantity (and to a lesser degree, map layout, since some seem to spawn more nodes more frequently than others).

Also fyi quantity on your gear does diddly-squat for sulphite.
"
Miffy23 wrote:
The issue ain't with the game, there's nothing broken, you just ain't doing it right, to put it bluntly.

It's not my first league. I know that I am playing sub-optimal, yet it worked for me many times.
Organic chemistry is a weird thing. If you add a spoon of shit to a barrel of jam you'll get a barrel of shit.
"
This certainly sounds like an improvement, but doesn't actually address the root problem.

There's no reason for delves to be gated behind maps. When you announced delve league, you said that the goal of the delve mechanic was to keep the game fresh for longer, because many people were "done" with a league within the first month.

We're done with the league because we've farmed all of the maps we can stand to farm, and have nothing else left to explore. If you want to force me to spend 3 hours in maps for every hour of new content I want to do in delves, I'm just going to tell you to fuck right off with that, and quit at my usual pace.

You have failed in your goal of extending league life, and done so seemingly intentionally, by artificially gating the new content behind the boring old content.

Delve depth should be about how deep you can survive, not how hard you can grind maps. Literally everything else is already about how hard you can grind maps.

It isn't even like gating it is needed for loot reasons. Maps give 10x as much loot as delves (if you're doing the things that make maps rewarding: elder blob, sextants, zana mods, etc), so people still have plenty of reason to play maps if they haven't gotten tired of them yet.



Well go make a game then. Adress all these problems yourself. GGG is trying their Damn Hardest to make shit possible. They bend knee to the community and reddit when ever you guys complain. So honestly if you quit play something easier. The name of the company is GRINDING Gear Games. SO grind a fucking bit.
Just give us more sulpihte ffs GGG... you keep f...... up... we are ment to interact with the league mechanics but you keep making it harder for everyone... even your beloved streamers are bitching on Twitch... get your s... together.
Last edited by Drimli on Sep 22, 2018, 6:58:55 PM
Honestly, I didn't have any particular issue with this system until AFTER the update. I've been slowly shuffling along with my character, and the lowest sulphite amount to travel in depths around the 130's with monsters in the low-mid 70's was about 55 sulphite. The patch drops, and it doubles . . . I don't feel like messing with it, so I don't bother to do a delve for a day or so . . . and the cost has now doubled again. It now costs 251 sulphite to do the minimum distance. Which has now handily moved the league mechanic from a very interesting pasttime here and there in between maps, to a cumbersome, annoying slog . . . which I think the balance was meant to CORRECT? Just what, exactly, is the thinking here?

I was considering making more of an effort to interact with the league mechanic, but this is now so tedious that I'm now questioning its value beyond checking the challenge box. It's really unfortunate, because I really like this concept.

"
Miffy23 wrote:
"
obadonke wrote:
I'm beginning to realise how subjective and contextual opinions are on Delving. The changes appear to be working for me... with lvl 80 char, playing maybe an hour a day, haven't delved passed depth 80 and haven't even completed a Tier 5 map.

I wonder how I'm going to feel when I start trying to delve deeper?

Balancing this league for the majority of players is one hell of an undertaking. I hope GGG manages it though. I would very much like to see Delving as part of the core game.


It stay more or less the same, it only starts feeling really bad when you push way beyond the 300-400 range, before that you still get roughly 1 Delve node per Sulphite node (at good quantity rolls on the maps).

Honestly I believe the reason so many - especially more casual - players are frustrated is because they expected more of an alternative to mapping, instead of a traditional league mechanic deeply connected to mapping.

That hasn't changed compared to previous leagues, you always wanted to aim for high red maps in most leagues. But the attitude has.

Partially it's because of their miscommunication, they advertised delving as a form of Greater Rifts like in D3, which they really aren't.

Part of it is also due to people relying way too heavily on Quarry farming and now being screwed because they were lazy and didn't prepare their Atlas.

Personally enjoying it immensely and consider it one of the best leagues to date.


Hardly anyone did Quarry farm, that was just one other excuse by GGG as we saw at Beastiary, where they pretty much removed the six link beast, because of one guy abusing it.

Casuals play the game, they do not farm one map 24/7 or exploit.

Your insults through out this thread are nothing but nuisance btw. So people are lazy, if their atlas isn´t full? Do you even know how hard it is to even do the Zana maps?

It took me over a week to finally reach tier 8 influence maps, because neither springs nor toxic sewers were dropping or showing up at Zana.

Greater rifts from D3 ROS, also have a currency cost and are not well received by players at all. They are just done by some nerds, the rest left D3 long ago as they do not add anything new since years. D3 was best during Inferno days, where the acts still mattered and we had an AH.


What POE suffers under are people like you, people who insult casuals all day, calling them lazy or dumb, just because they play different (no trading, no leeching, solo...). Sadly, GGG is only listening to your kind, they ruined Beastiary like that and they are about to ruin Delve with this too.
Incursion was the worst league they ever did, a league only for 1% of the playerbase and if that is the future of POE, then you will sooner or later be all by yourself with your elite clique.

Congratz!
"
Well go make a game then. Adress all these problems yourself. GGG is trying their Damn Hardest to make shit possible. They bend knee to the community and reddit when ever you guys complain. So honestly if you quit play something easier. The name of the company is GRINDING Gear Games. SO grind a fucking bit.

I am always amused when I see someone who's never even pushed to 24/40 before tries to defend the levels of hypergrind you find at the far endgame (that they've never touched) and cites that the word "grind" is found in the developer's name.

I mean, you'd figure that, perhaps, as a company that ostensibly asks for feedback, that a player, y'know, posting feedback and suggestions would be WELCOMED, rather than attacked by players who apparently haven't even experienced the relevant stuff in question.
Rufalius, hybrid Aura/Arc/Mana Guardian | Hemorae, TS Raider | Wuru, Ele Hit Wand Trickster
Last edited by ACGIFT on Sep 23, 2018, 12:53:54 AM

Report Forum Post

Report Account:

Report Type

Additional Info