Delve Costing Changes

"
Miffy23 wrote:
Honestly this is usually due to people not really knowing what to look for on drops or how to make currency off what they get.

If it involves trade I'm not interested.

"
Miffy23 wrote:
Also, I played Harbinger excessively as well, and there was no such thing going on. Map sustain was about as easy as it is now (delve city biomes shower you in maps)

Absolutely not.

"
Miffy23 wrote:
As you say yourself you were extremely lucky, so that will have coloured your experience quite a bit.

I don't believe in 1000 hours long luck streak.

"
Miffy23 wrote:
You know why things are more expensive now? Because you have inflation from very easily accessible currency, fossils and drops in delves. Easier access means more cheap items and basic currency, and to a lesser degree, more desirable items on the market, but less so. This spells inflation. Now imagine what happens when you remove the time/sulphite cost entirely, but keep the returns.

I'm not talking about exact price. I am talking about how difficult it is to get stuff.
Organic chemistry is a weird thing. If you add a spoon of shit to a barrel of jam you'll get a barrel of shit.
"
Oblitus wrote:

If it involves trade I'm not interested.


Shouldn't you be playing SSF then?


"
Absolutely not.


We're apparently playing different games, then.

"
I don't believe in 1000 hours long luck streak.


Not sure I follow. You were generally "finding more" in Harbinger, you mean? I still maintain you simply need more awareness about what sells in terms of item mods. It'S very easy to make money off practically any content if you know how. But that involves trade, which you abhor apparently so eh.


"
I'm not talking about exact price. I am talking about how difficult it is to get stuff.


So just natural drops? For that delves are far, FAR better than Harbinger. Harbinger added tons of special currencies, maps and a little bit of quantity, but that was it. Delves add shit tons of tools to craft overpowered items yourself, as well as showering you in "free" currency and extra items, comparable to Incursions or Abysses.

Again, you're talking like an SSF player that is forcing him/herself to play Trade League and hating it. I'd recommend you look into SSF mode and learn a bit more about crafting though, else you'll struggle even more there.
Last edited by Miffy23 on Sep 22, 2018, 7:17:04 AM
"
Miffy23 wrote:
Shouldn't you be playing SSF then?

SSF just disables your trade. It does not change drop or anything.

I've played SSF in last flashback to get demigod, and ended up just short of getting it. Still, got armor set MTX. It is not better than playing trade league and ignoring trade unless you absolutely has to.

"
We're apparently playing different games, then.

Probably yes. Map sustain is absolutely abyssmal this league.

"
Not sure I follow. You were generally "finding more" in Harbinger, you mean?

Not just more. Massively more. And I've played in goddamn SSF almost entire league, only migrated at the end to finish Atziri grind in rotas to get that 40/40 totem. Yes, I made it to somewhere like 37/40 in SSF. And had fun doing it.

"
Delves add shit tons of tools to craft overpowered items yourself

Yes, you just have to buy a ton of said tools. For me it produces trash I'll be ashamed to show to vendors.

"
Harbinger added tons of special currencies, maps and a little bit of quantity, but that was it.

Exactly. It provided essentially free access to maps you want. And since it was all about maps that league, it was basically free access to endgame content. It was like Delve would be without sulphite. I had more than 30 beachheads done in SSF.
Organic chemistry is a weird thing. If you add a spoon of shit to a barrel of jam you'll get a barrel of shit.
Miffy23...
"
Again, you're talking like an SSF player that is forcing him/herself to play Trade League and hating it. I'd recommend you look into SSF mode...


SSF is simply Standard with all the slim benefits of (pita) trading removed! I suspect that if they buffed the drop rate in SSF so that it wasn't so punitive to play SSF, that would solve a lot of the 'traditional' ARPG players issues.
Of course, make the characters locked to the SSF league and don't allow any transference, that goes without saying if you want to protect your precious economy.

But that's one of my biggest bugbears in this game.

"
You know why things are more expensive now? Because you have inflation...

Fucking inflation!! I play games in general to get away from the real world, and I play ARPG's to kill stuff, loot stuff, equip stuff and kill more stuff. I doubt I'm alone in either aspect.
If I wanted to play a stock market sim I would, but I don't. That's why I was suckered into this game in the first place, because I thought it was an ARPG.

I think a lot of people started playing POE not realising that it's not the 'Traditional ARPG' that it pretends to be on the box. They are then left with the stark choice, like it or leave. And with time, and money, invested in the game, they feel like they have to stay, with the vain hope that the game will someday mature in to something less punitive.

I'll be interested to see what happens to POE once Diablo 4 is released, especially if it goes down the more 'Trad ARPG' route. I suspect a large portion of the player base may well abandon POE and certainly won't miss the elitist jerk atmosphere that is developing in POE over recent months.
"
Oblitus wrote:
"RNG is fucking me, this league sucks"


That's what it sounds like to me, without intending to provoke you.
But you really seem to be playing an entirely different game, this has been one of the smoothest and easiest leagues to get into, in my experience.

Some tips to maybe help you:

- don't focus on pushing your delve deeper, focus on going horizontally at "sufficient" depths (like red map level) to get more delves for the same sulphite and find more city biomes, currency nodes and bosses

- look into how to sustain red maps properly, there are plenty of guides around. I'm not trying to be snarky, but you can sustain red maps pretty easily without any league mechanic, the leagues usually just make it even easier. Oh also, we actually have Harbinger map mods this league too just fyi, and Shaper Strongholds drop Horizon orbs - focus them!

- learn how to fossil-craft properly. If you are just using 1 fossil on any given item and hoping for god tier rolls, you'll be disappointed. The way you use fossils properly (especially in SSF or non-trade scenarios) is to *BLOCK* mods you don't want, instead of just looking at "this fossil potentially adds an amazing mod i want". In some scenarios you can pretty easily get very good items with just 2-3 fossil combos, in some cases Prime resonators will be required to really get to the juicy rolls though.

- farm fossils and resonators by looking for the longest delves possible in interesting biomes (there are guides out that show you where fossils can spawn). The longer the delve node, the more breakable walls and fossils will spawn (as well as free currency chests etc). This can be done at very low depths for immense profit/crafting material gains! 1 node at your current progress depth may translate to literally dozens and dozens of nodes at lower depths you can pillage for crafting/profit.

Just some tips I thought might help you in Delve o/

Once again i'll helpfully point out that Harbinger did not add much in terms of quantity/item returns, and that map sustain in Delve as almost as easy if you know how!

"
elderwood wrote:


SSF is simply Standard with all the slim benefits of (pita) trading removed! I suspect that if they buffed the drop rate in SSF so that it wasn't so punitive to play SSF, that would solve a lot of the 'traditional' ARPG players issues.
Of course, make the characters locked to the SSF league and don't allow any transference, that goes without saying if you want to protect your precious economy.

But that's one of my biggest bugbears in this game.


Fucking inflation!! I play games in general to get away from the real world, and I play ARPG's to kill stuff, loot stuff, equip stuff and kill more stuff. I doubt I'm alone in either aspect.
If I wanted to play a stock market sim I would, but I don't. That's why I was suckered into this game in the first place, because I thought it was an ARPG.

I think a lot of people started playing POE not realising that it's not the 'Traditional ARPG' that it pretends to be on the box. They are then left with the stark choice, like it or leave. And with time, and money, invested in the game, they feel like they have to stay, with the vain hope that the game will someday mature in to something less punitive.

I'll be interested to see what happens to POE once Diablo 4 is released, especially if it goes down the more 'Trad ARPG' route. I suspect a large portion of the player base may well abandon POE and certainly won't miss the elitist jerk atmosphere that is developing in POE over recent months.


Huh?
How is SSF "standard"? You can play Delve SSF mode right now...
SSF has a very lively community and plenty of streamers very into it (check out tarkecat for example).

I'm not sure excactly what your problem with SSF is....if you're comparing PoE to D3 you'Re doing it wrong, 2 entirely different metas. But i do suspect many players come from D3 and get frustrated because PoE is nowhere near as accessible and has far more depth to it.
Last edited by Miffy23 on Sep 22, 2018, 7:58:53 AM
"
elderwood wrote:


SSF is simply Standard with all the slim benefits of (pita) trading removed! I suspect that if they buffed the drop rate in SSF so that it wasn't so punitive to play SSF, that would solve a lot of the 'traditional' ARPG players issues.
Of course, make the characters locked to the SSF league and don't allow any transference, that goes without saying if you want to protect your precious economy.

But that's one of my biggest bugbears in this game.


Fucking inflation!! I play games in general to get away from the real world, and I play ARPG's to kill stuff, loot stuff, equip stuff and kill more stuff. I doubt I'm alone in either aspect.
If I wanted to play a stock market sim I would, but I don't. That's why I was suckered into this game in the first place, because I thought it was an ARPG.

I think a lot of people started playing POE not realising that it's not the 'Traditional ARPG' that it pretends to be on the box. They are then left with the stark choice, like it or leave. And with time, and money, invested in the game, they feel like they have to stay, with the vain hope that the game will someday mature in to something less punitive.

I'll be interested to see what happens to POE once Diablo 4 is released, especially if it goes down the more 'Trad ARPG' route. I suspect a large portion of the player base may well abandon POE and certainly won't miss the elitist jerk atmosphere that is developing in POE over recent months.


"
Miffy23 wrote:

Huh?
How is SSF "standard"? You can play Delve SSF mode right now...
SSF has a very lively community and plenty of streamers very into it (check out tarkecat for example).

I'm not sure excactly what your problem with SSF is....if you're comparing PoE to D3 you'Re doing it wrong, 2 entirely different metas. But i do suspect many players come from D3 and get frustrated because PoE is nowhere near as accessible and has far more depth to it.


Although I didn't mention D3 (as D3 tends to be the Fisher Price of ARPG's) I take your point. However, for all of POE's depth, it's sometimes very difficult to find what you need, especially if you don't know it exists in the first place. POE tends to treat information like Scrooge treats money, you have to pry it from them when they should be giving you some (perhaps not all) of it freely.

As for the SSF/Standard comment, I assumed you would know what I was inferring.
In terms of drop rates there is no difference between SSF and any other equivalent league, however you cannot trade in SSF. Whilst that is the whole point of SSF, the chances of you organically getting the things you need for your build is minuscule, even farming cards. And as has been pointed out, if you are using a sub-standard build (or no build at all), you are ill-equipped for end game content. People therefore follow build guides, most of which have mandatory uniques. Getting those, without trading is extremely tough.
By not buffing the drop rates, all GGG have done is remove one potential source of acquisition (trading) but not replaced it with anything at all (buffed drop rates). Too many 'cons', not enough 'pros' to balance them.
This makes SSF a 'challenge' for sure, but it also makes it frustrating and not certainly not what I was hoping for when it was announced.

My point is that I suspect SSF is arguably too punitive to be enjoyable for most trad ARPG players.
Last edited by elderwood on Sep 22, 2018, 8:25:35 AM
"
elderwood wrote:
[
Although I didn't mention D3 (as D3 tends to be the Fisher Price of ARPG's) I take your point. However, for all of POE's depth, it's sometimes very difficult to find what you need, especially if you don't know it exists in the first place. POE tends to treat information like Scrooge treats money, you have to pry it from them when they should be giving you some (perhaps not all) of it freely.

As for the SSF/Standard comment, I assumed you would know what I was inferring.
In terms of drop rates there is no difference between SSF and any other equivalent league, however you cannot trade in SSF. Whilst that is the whole point of SSF, the chances of you organically getting the things you need for your build is minuscule, even farming cards. And as has been pointed out, if you are using a sub-standard build (or no build at all), you are ill-equipped for end game content. People therefore follow build guides, most of which have mandatory uniques. Getting those, without trading is extremely tough.
By not buffing the drop rates, all GGG have done is remove one potential source of acquisition (trading) but not replaced it with anything at all (buffed drop rates). Too many 'cons', not enough 'pros' to balance them.
This makes SSF a 'challenge' for sure, but it also makes it frustrating and not certainly not what I was hoping for when it was announced.

My point is that I suspect SSF is arguably too punitive to be enjoyable for most trad ARPG players.


I mentioned Diablo because you mentioned D4, seemingly indicating that you prefer the current Diablo approach of power over gear creep. Meaning it is very accessible and showers you in drops, but also burns through content faster and seasonal play usually grinds to a halt within weeks versus months in PoE.

SSF is intentionally not showering you in drops the way Diablo does, because PoE is an entirely different meta with vastly more build and item complexity. You have to build differently, play differently, plan differently in SSF, and many players enjoy that immensely. You have many more options to progress in PoE via items and builds, whereas D3 has very specific builds that you MUST go for to progress properly, and ergo shoves these items in your face sooner rather than later.

This is, again, why i mentioned Diablo because it seems obvious to me that many players come try out PoE after playing D3 and are used to the different meta of having shiny things thrown at them constantly.

It's true that PoE has a bit more of an information barrier, if you want to get better, you have to consult other players for the most part.
Thankfully PoE has developed a huge and active streamer and youtuber community over the years that provide practically all the information you ever need.
Last edited by Miffy23 on Sep 22, 2018, 8:33:04 AM
The Delving cost increased too, So now i have 3k point instead of 900 but i pay 1200 point isntead of 300 So whats the point of this??? Really dissapointed because of this trash suplhur farm system
"
Miffy23 wrote:
"
Oblitus wrote:
"RNG is fucking me, this league sucks"


That's what it sounds like to me, without intending to provoke you.
But you really seem to be playing an entirely different game, this has been one of the smoothest and easiest leagues to get into, in my experience.

And for me it is absolutely the worst. And not just "kinda bad" but "what the fuck is happening" level. Add dead on delivery league mechanics and patches that breaking it further...

"
look into how to sustain red maps properly, there are plenty of guides around. I'm not trying to be snarky, but you can sustain red maps pretty easily without any league mechanic, the leagues usually just make it even easier. Oh also, we actually have Harbinger map mods this league too just fyi, and Shaper Strongholds drop Horizon orbs - focus them!

I am just today progressed Zana quest to make strongholds spawn. Yes, it is THAT bad.

Also, all that sustain startegies are all built around trade. This is not sustaining. Buying sextants, chisels, vaals etc is no different from buying maps. What's the point to buy access from content? Why not buy account with level 100 character and 40/40 completion and not declare "I beaten the game" then?

"
don't focus on pushing your delve deeper, focus on going horizontally at "sufficient" depths (like red map level) to get more delves for the same sulphite and find more city biomes, currency nodes and bosses

I barely reached YELLOW map level in delve.
Organic chemistry is a weird thing. If you add a spoon of shit to a barrel of jam you'll get a barrel of shit.
Last edited by Oblitus on Sep 22, 2018, 10:24:35 AM
"
Oblitus wrote:
last post


I don't really know what to tell you. You seem to be struggling with the basics of mapping - again, not trying to be snarky here, just observing. The principles of getting into red maps don't really change from one league to the next, and it's always the same deal.

I can only assume that you are stubbornly refusing to engage in most trading activity, as well as refusing to chisel/sextant (although those aren't really necessary until well into red maps tbf), leading to you relying entirely on natural map drops to progress. That, i'm afraid, simply won't work out very well.

Sustaining means to generate map drops at a certain tier level (or specific maps, if you have shaped your atlas accordingly) sufficiently to not have to buy more maps - this includes, however, that you are optimizing your map returns.

However i can tell you that up until red maps you don't really need to do anything except to transmute/aug white maps and alch yellow maps, there's no need for any other investments. Buy maps that don't drop to complete each Tier as you go up, and you should be getting plenty map drops as you unlock more.

The issue ain't with the game, there's nothing broken, you just ain't doing it right, to put it bluntly.

Report Forum Post

Report Account:

Report Type

Additional Info