They actually managed to do worse than bestiary

"

robmafia wrote:

"

allbusiness wrote:

How is the league mechanic poorly balanced?

what the hell?

incursion mechanic + timer = 2L firestorm outperforming concurrent 3L summoner skills plus summoner tree?

come on. it's been the same point this entire time.

i honestly don't see how you aren't following this.

a game can be balanced AND harder. in fact, being properly balanced makes more incentive to make it legitimately harder.

that said, the power creep/easiness is actually a COMPLETELY DIFFERENT point.

For an hour out of a hundred plus hours. An imbalance that exists literally for one percent of the game is suddenly a big deal? Suddenly you care about new players? You're just arguing for the sake or arguing, you hardly even play the game by your own admission. At this point it's clearly obvious you're just trolling.


Incursions are legitimately difficult at low levels. They are honestly even legitimately difficult in end game scenarios especially with bad mods on them. They are difficult because you need to have clear speed, which is a hallmark of pretty much every good ARPG build known to man. They are difficult because the temple is extremely rewarding in proportion to the rest of the game.

"

allbusiness wrote:

For an hour out of a hundred plus hours. An imbalance that exists literally for one percent of the game is suddenly a big deal? Suddenly you care about new players? You're just arguing for the sake or arguing, you hardly even play the game by your own admission. At this point it's clearly obvious you're just trolling.


Incursions are legitimately difficult at low levels. They are honestly even legitimately difficult in end game scenarios especially with bad mods on them. They are difficult because you need to have clear speed, which is a hallmark of pretty much every good ARPG build known to man. They are difficult because the temple is extremely rewarding in proportion to the rest of the game.

wtf. suddenly? no, it was ALWAYS about new/early. hence, low level.

ffs, here's my FIRST post of this thread.

"

robmafia wrote:

(on page 5)after hearing about the problems with non-meta builds (and summoners, specifically)... i made a witch, used summoning gems, and tried out the league. the complaints seem pretty accurate. it was terrible. (srs, skel, zombie, phantasms - all sucked and were wayyyyyy too slow)

because it's trap league, i started a shadow and used explosive trap and then lightning trap. it was somewhat do-able (had +1 gem sceptre/wand and multitrap), but still sucked compared to split arrow/blast rain/etc. was able to use a bunch of stones, but failed to unlock the apex. womp, womp.

and traps are really weird now.

shortly after...

"

robmafia wrote:

(page 7)and for a funny update, i hopped on the witch and grabbed a lvl 2 firestorm with a combustion gem (2L) and was able to clear better than using minion skills, despite literally not one passive helping it at all... or gear (ie: wasn't using a +1 wand, no help from affixes).

lolz

minutes later:

"

robmafia wrote:

(also page 7)i cleared just fine with a 2L firestorm and ZERO passives/affixes that would benefit it. spell damage? none. cast speed? none.

when a spell gem with one whole support gem and nothing at all else outperforms numerous 3L setups in simultaneous use (zombies + srs or skel) with numerous passives/affixes... there's a problem.

so... yeah. you've argued a ton for 40 pages while never comprehending what you were arguing. business as usual.

"

allbusiness wrote:

"

robmafia wrote:

"

allbusiness wrote:

Hint : It doesn't matter about imbalance for an hour of gameplay, a new player doesn't know the difference between the power levels of summons or firestorm, they are just trying to figure the game out. Considering you can still truck through the entire game on summons from level 1 through 100 anyways, it'll just be slower at the beginning portion. Does that matter in the grand scheme of things? Not really.

...wait, wait, wait.

so the problem of new players failing at incursions and quitting... doesn't matter because they don't know that build x is more powerful many hours later?

logic!

how did you forget the entire point of this?

I seriously doubt someone is going to quit playing a game because they failed at something the first time, and if they did, they probably aren't someone you want playing your game in the first place.

It´s less about failing, it´s about being frustrated when you hit a wall you can not climb, no matter how hard you try.

New players and casuals outnumber streamers and their followers by big numbers. You must keep them attached to your game, so that they might at one point invest money into stash tabs & co.

When I was new in the game, I reached Nightmare and no matter what I did, I just couldn´t get further. I stopped playing said league and tried again next time. That was when legacy came around and I was so happy about it, that I did invest more time into the game and still play it, even though I disliked harbinger and incursion.

Therefore, it is very important to point out flaws within the current league, so that the next will not suffer under the same problems.

I want to thank the mod for cleaning up here, cheers!

For me the difficulty feels perfect, I'm an experienced player but not a very good one (never killed Shaper or Uber Elder or Uber Atziri).

I tend to manage to connect my Temple the way I want about 80-90% of the time and it feels just right. Players with worse builds or less experience with ARPGs will have a harder time for sure.

Need a loan?

Flex those 9 exalts bro. Flex em.



Let's remind everyone

"

Ajo wrote:

"

allbusiness wrote:

Then what is the issue?

You literally have 30 pages that you can read if you wanna know. It's not my fault that you don't understand what the grownups are talking about here. You should have spent more time reading the actual arguments instead of dismissing them with insults.

"

allbusiness wrote:

Challenges are hard to complete when you're just sitting in Uber Lab for the past week or two printing money.

You need a loan?

"

Ajo wrote:

"

allbusiness wrote:

Just stop. And you probably play SC where you can literally print money by just playing the game.

I guess that you could have afforded your missing gear all along then that you made such big deal about.

It's okay, you can give your guildies their money back now.

So you post your exalts to show off your wealth, get put in your place, accuse me of borrowing exalts from other people (which I never have, I generated all my wealth on my own), and then try to divert things away to make it look like you weren't being a complete and total jackass. Daily reminder that no one should take anything from you seriously at all. Your credibility was completely shot when you tried to brag like achievements even mean anything when you can buy half of them in SC for incredibly low prices, tried to show off your peasant level wealth, and then try to play it all off.

"

Ajo wrote:

Don't be salty. It was only when you stopped throwing insults in this thread that you finally realized that you were talking about something completely different. I just wished you had done this sooner and not after 40 pages.

We have been pointing out that you missed the point over and over but you just dismissed this. Still you claimed that you totally got the point. You didn't even know what the point was to begin with because you were too busy talking about streamers and shaper dps and that everyone else was bad.

You can act like an adult here and admit that you didn't even read the original post while putting in the effort on arguing and insulting others in over 40 pages (lol). But I guess that you wont. You only have one kind of material to provide and you have showed so in over 40 pages and you're still doing it.

"Don't be salty"


1) You claimed to be better than me because you had more achievements (lmao)

2) I said I don't have many achievements because I've been uber lab farming for money so I don't have to worry about the it for the rest of the league

3) You post 9 exalts asking if I needed a loan, insinuating I'm poor

4) I respond with my stacks of exalts

5) You accuse me of borrwing money from guild members

6) I post all the other big ticket items I have currently pretty much showing how much of a poor peasant you actually are. Then you seemingly ignore all that and try and change the subject.



But I'm salty right.



Also, when I said that if you can't outclear Incursions and I can with RF, that wasn't directed at you, that was directed at everyone complaining about Incursions in general. If slow ass RF Jugg can clear red tier Incursions, then it's not a league mechanic problem, it's a you (you as in the rest of you whiney nerds) have a shit stain DPS build problem that was going to fail at any challenging content in the first place.

What a party, gentlemen!

Let me be so bold to address the former OP instead, with hindsight.

I decided to skip incursion altogether until hitting maps, looking back that was a sensible decision. But let me add one thing - I tried to ponder why I disliked it at low levels so much and to tell the truth, for me, it was because I (~my character) did not OWN the stage by then. Heaven forbid, sometimes I even failed!

I will offer my hide here and admit that through the time, I am so used to worship effectivity (not that much time to play, etc. etc.) that I found the early level Incursions to be - perfectly skippable.

While in its core, the mechanic is enjoyable for me, the Incursions are nice "hit and run once a map" refreshments, Temple has many meaningful impacts on the game. I enjoy this addition to the game. Once I hit maps (~second day, anyway).

So speaking for me, the early level Incursions reminds me, how much I, the player changed since this game started many years ago. I seem unable to enjoy the "staircase of levelling" any more. In Incursions, one can directly feel how his character is growing in strength, making progress, shaping out (~or the opposite). But rather not, please, I would rather have a pill to sleep through it all, wake me up when I hit maps, please.

That conclusion feels a bit too much nostalgic, but there you are, my hindsight evaluation of Incursion.

Looks like the issues with the timer are limited to the initial leveling phase and some builds having limited AoE capability.

I guess the change curve has moved from shock and denial to exceptance and adaption.

probably both.

it obviously wasn't going to be changed, so people would have either quit the league or are playing through it, anyway.

the skill imbalance IS pretty terrible right now, as far as i can tell.

of course, that leads to 2 major recurrent theories/ideas:

- ggg intentionally creates meta shifts with these silly skill imbalances and it's by design

- ggg can't balance the game and doesn't comprehend their own mechanics, resulting in wild meta swings with skill imbalance

unfortunately, things like the zerphi's debacle provide evidence for the latter.

add in the incursion mechanic and a timer, and this thread's the result.