Remove death penalty for standard league?

Lol how kill the game. No risk No emotîon no interest, and welcome bot laďder like d2

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Snorkle_uk wrote:

thing u got to remember is that people are hitting level 100 in solo self found hardcore league.

The whole point of having a game where you can make builds and having gear that you can find/craft is that those things matter. They matter because getting them right makes you stronger, being stronger matters because theres a reason to not die, and that reason is the death penalty.

Its not fun because youre failing at it, and that xp loss is the game telling you youre failing. They dont want you to have fun, they want you to feel bad because youre doing something wrong and its not working. They want you to feel good when you do something right. These deaths youre suffering are an alarm bell going off, do alarm bells sound nice? No, theyre the most horrible sound possible repeating over and over at a horrible volume, theres a reason alarm bells dont sound like beautiful piece of music.

Somethings going wrong, i dunno if its the build or the gear choice, but its something, and we know because we all failed first time round too. Experienced players can do this self found with a huge variety of builds and sail through to level 90 deathless. You need to reevaluate what youre doing, learn a bit more, try again. When you get it right, when you work it out, its gonna feel amazing because you earned it, you hit a wall, dusted yourself off and then climbed over it. The rewards are worth what you paid for them, if it didnt cost you any effort, if you didnt have to invest any time and knowledge then it would be a worthless payout at the end.


Stick with it, look at how much life you have, are your resists capped? Do you have any other defenses going on? Something there is lacking, and theres gonna be a way to do things differently that result in you have more life or resist or defence or maybe all 3 and youre gonna succeed and it will feel great. Solving that puzzle isnt just essential to the game, it essentially IS the game.

Come on @Snorkle_uk.

As long as the game doesn't become a paramount of stability, reliability and balance regarding spike damage and "worst case scenarios" not happening only "when the stars align", with dumbed down enemies while making PoE a "pew-pew" hack & slash with ARPG elements, the slow single target namelocking melee players will always be at a severe disadvantage versus the "Road Runners" that go all out on meta and "break the game" with a "clever use of game mechanics/items/skills or interactions".

It's cool that GGG feels that they must "prolong" the grind as they got "overwhelming feedback" regarding this direction, but they could do so without resorting to artificially impede progression for the last 5 levels. There are better solutions if GGG wants some difficulty back and still keep the journey from 1 to 100 a defining experience in PoE.

I'm agreeing with your point regarding "earning a reward", but why not grant said reward also for "up to snuff" skillplay, and not only for "up to snuff" time investments?

And we both know that currently, the danger/reward ratio in PoE is skewed towards the "fast & easy content" versus the real "end game difficult" one.

I am as casual as a determined casual n00b hoarder can be, and still, I don't find it neither fun nor challenging to have to level versus "easier" content because the "end game" must be "gated" and also have a worst danger/reward ratio than said "easier" one.

And it's not like I can't manage up to tier 16 maps, or special encounters, but hey, Shaper is out of reach due to my choice of skill combined with a capped maximum damage output a lot lower than just going Crit - sure, I have 2 options, one to further improve my weapons to gain less than double the maximum current output (with 2 perfectly rolled mirrored Behemoth Maces I still gain about 75% "moar" damage at most according to PoB, and getting to 800K DPS when all stars align versus my current 500K DPS when all stars align scenario), and the other to embrace the "meta" and actually finish the content.

The timed instance regarding the arena becoming uninhabitable feels very much like running an Oba map.

Much diversity. Much WOW.

Now, if it would be like Uber Atziri, where you can improve your skillplay and ALWAYS finish the fight, that would be OK, but until then, Shaper and the new Shaper + Elder will be out of reach for a "decently" equipped build, that was just stubborn to go dual wielding RT and single target namelocking at the same time.

So why do you think everyone enjoys going "meta" instead of playing what they want when they reach the "artificial wall" mentioned above?

If GGG would like for their playerbase to improve on all aspects, <0.5 seconds damage spikes would be gone, disregarding the "instant log out" option. And they could start going up from there, heck if Vaal Immortal call would always get cast when you drop at <10% life, and would remove instant leech for the next 10 seconds, with maybe a debuff to regen/recharge, I'm sure that with a few additional DoTs, the fights would be as "rippy" as currently, but also a lot more fair. But that would also require common sense regarding uncapped maximum damage, and a system with a softcap + hardcap would become mandatory.

And dare I remember that "zerging" is still not addressed, and the current death penalty + EXP gain penalty transform PoE in playing a "chicken fest" versus "snail fest", with everything between those a subpar experience?

A lot of improvements could be made, and as long as "zerging" and "mindless carries" (you should be required to ALWAYS be in the boss arena and at least learn to not die IF you're carried) are not on the table, even with 0 death penalty, PoE could be very difficult. Just force players to restart the fight in the same conditions every time they die - that means healing the enemies that killed you back, as those "old school" games always did. Would that be a better solution, probably not, but it would be on par with the current one.

So let me ask for a better and fairer death EXP penalty, next to a rework to the current EXP gain penalty, to better link the skewed danger/reward ratios that we all "enjoy" at the moment. I am certain that the journey from 1 to 100 could be a great experience for EVERYONE as long as GGG actually WANTS THAT to become the epitome of PoE, next to "real diversity".

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Snorkle_uk wrote:

thing u got to remember is that people are hitting level 100 in solo self found hardcore league.

Spoiler

The whole point of having a game where you can make builds and having gear that you can find/craft is that those things matter. They matter because getting them right makes you stronger, being stronger matters because theres a reason to not die, and that reason is the death penalty.

Its not fun because youre failing at it, and that xp loss is the game telling you youre failing. They dont want you to have fun, they want you to feel bad because youre doing something wrong and its not working. They want you to feel good when you do something right. These deaths youre suffering are an alarm bell going off, do alarm bells sound nice? No, theyre the most horrible sound possible repeating over and over at a horrible volume, theres a reason alarm bells dont sound like beautiful piece of music.

Somethings going wrong, i dunno if its the build or the gear choice, but its something, and we know because we all failed first time round too. Experienced players can do this self found with a huge variety of builds and sail through to level 90 deathless. You need to reevaluate what youre doing, learn a bit more, try again. When you get it right, when you work it out, its gonna feel amazing because you earned it, you hit a wall, dusted yourself off and then climbed over it. The rewards are worth what you paid for them, if it didnt cost you any effort, if you didnt have to invest any time and knowledge then it would be a worthless payout at the end. Stick with it, look at how much life you have, are your resists capped? Do you have any other defenses going on? Something there is lacking, and theres gonna be a way to do things differently that result in you have more life or resist or defence or maybe all 3 and youre gonna succeed and it will feel great. Solving that puzzle isnt just essential to the game, it essentially IS the game.

While this is good advice, there are some things that should be considered for someone playing a standard character over a long period of time. A player may balance the gear and stats around their initial build, the skill tree and the current balance. Several leagues later, that tree could have changed, the balance changed and the combination of skills and gear are more difficult to fine tune for the 90+ leveling.

GGG should just let standard characters have the option of keeping the skill tree they started out with. Since they can snap shot Grandmasters, it seems they have a way of doing this.

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PrinceNiels wrote:

Would this be a good idea to do maybe?

Keep the penalty for hardcore leagues but the standard league it would be gone?
That'd make the game a lot more fun to me. Especially endgame.

You seem like a newer player. you should not be dying as much as you seem to be doing right now.

I looked at your Lioneyes glare character: you are wearing too many unique items, get rare jewelry and gloves with life and resistances on them. Goldrim is nice for leveling, but get a rare helm with life and resistances instead.

You need at least 160% increased life on the passive skilltree at level 80 to not feel squishy.

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elemental_oasis wrote:

Anyone can easily hit level 100 by constantly playing maps without rolling any damage mods but it's not fun.

How many times have you leveled to 100 in ssf?

You don't sustain maps by playing only the easy mods.

@op - removing exp penalty is ridiculous. Neither are t1 maps endgame.

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Shagsbeard wrote:

At some point, your character reaches a level where he maxes out. The game just isn't polite enough to tell you that. For me, it's about 92. Might make 93, if I'm really careful. But boredom sets in and I try something stupid and get sent back. That's the nature of this game. You decide for yourself when it's time to quit.

At some point you reach a level, where your patience to nerd 3-4 maps for 1% is maxed out....

The game just lacks of high level end content for lvl 90-95.

I'd rather reduce (remove?) the exp penalty for lvl 90+ and increase the death penalty to 20%

EDIT: they can make it so a lvl 95+ can only gain exp in rare t14+ maps, this way nobody could chain lame magic t10-11s to 100 (which is the root of all the exp nerfs)

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elemental_oasis wrote:

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Snorkle_uk wrote:

thing u got to remember is that people are hitting level 100 in solo self found hardcore league.

is this after the changes to exp gain or before because level 100 characters before the reduction to exp gain are irrelevant.

mate, I had a marauder in open beta, I played him for over 1000 hours, the highest map I ever found was a lvl75 map after chaosing for packsize/maze on virtually every map 70+, and after that 1000 hours he was level 89.

I started a new duelist last week, I went about half the speed I could have gone and I hit level 90 deathless in 4 days.


changes to xp gain? What, the ones that claw back a small fraction of the grind in the face of getting xp in this game being buffed through the roof on all fronts repeatedly none stop for the past 5 years? Ppl are hitting level 100 now faster than they were a year ago, a year ago faster than the year before and so on.

and yes, people are lvl100 in solo self found hardcore abyss, just like people were hitting 100 3 years ago when it probably took more than twice as long as it does today.

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sofocle10000 wrote:

Come on @Snorkle_uk. ......

Its a knowledge game, a gambling game. Whats a risk for this guy is an easy win for that guy. You know what you have to lose, you assess the odds and you make your bet. Its a game where the better your gear is the less skill it takes to play, the better your build is the less skill it takes to play, and yet gear and builds are something people work towards and a measure of how well you are doing. Skill is a factor but its not a game that is or ever will be based around pure skill and always taking the biggest risks. Its about playing smart, thats in the nature of the thing. If you want a game thats about playing well against the hardest challenge and only about that then something like Geometry Wars is the game you want to be playing, not an arpg, inherent to this genre is using knowledge to mitigate risk and difficulty.

actually if you think about it, the xp penalty on permanent leagues should be doubled, just because you dont have any time limits.

i actually went from 98,6-->98,3 after the atlas changes and decided to kill guardians and try red Elder.. perhaps not the right way to do those blindly :P

Game has been trivialised a lot. But with WotA xping has been worse than before in standard league, even if new bosses are not that hard at all throw abysses and elder/shaper stuffs in yolo yellow T15-T16 and shit happens. You take more risks average. Also xp formulas has changed a lot since beta. Also players getting bored faster because the game hasn't changed much dynamic wise.

There is a big difference between a lvl90 and a lvl100 character. It is not the same power level. You don't need much more than lvl90 to clear whole game with any build but 10 talents points change a lot for any build.