Failure of Communication and Mid League "nerf"

I am so confused why people would rely on exploiting a bug as though it were 100% guaranteed to stay in the game for as long as they want it to. I would never do that - if I wanted to exploit a bug, I'd do so fully aware that it could be taken away at any time.

Stock markets are going to be stock markets... if investors decide to believe that GGG would sanction a bug exploit, they are taking on risk, whether they are aware of it or not.

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adghar wrote:

I am so confused why people would rely on exploiting a bug as though it were 100% guaranteed to stay in the game for as long as they want it to. I would never do that - if I wanted to exploit a bug, I'd do so fully aware that it could be taken away at any time.

Stock markets are going to be stock markets... if investors decide to believe that GGG would sanction a bug exploit, they are taking on risk, whether they are aware of it or not.

Essentially it boils down to this, the price of an item has a correlation on how powerful it is, bugged or not. If you look at the fact that GGG said nothing for so long, the market looks at that and says, ok it might stay this way so the price goes up.

The issue isn't whether it is bugged or powerful either way, the issue is the lack of clear communication and what looks like almost no downside of delaying this fix until it doesn't have a large economical impact on players. (aka after the league)

I am pretty sure I got "nerfed" mid league before, in non-trivial manner, it somehow was related to how some support gems interacted, but that was quite long time ago and the scars healed. Since then, I usually aim to "close" challenges ASAP with some FotM build to avoid ouchies, then experiment freely.

However, I agree that such changes could be communicated better, once they happen.
At the same time, if preparing such argumentation materials draw away resources... they might have opted to just not use them this time around.

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aldorus wrote:

I am pretty sure I got "nerfed" mid league before, in non-trivial manner, it somehow was related to how some support gems interacted, but that was quite long time ago and the scars healed. Since then, I usually aim to "close" challenges ASAP with some FotM build to avoid ouchies, then experiment freely.

However, I agree that such changes could be communicated better, once they happen.
At the same time, if preparing such argumentation materials draw away resources... they might have opted to just not use them this time around.

Sorry, but are you saying it takes a lot of time to make a news post about a bugged item interaction? And therefore they might not have thought it was worthwhile to make it?

I can't agree with that at all. It would have been better for them to say literally nothing, except the patch notes, if that was the case, but as soon as you say something in a burried post here or on reddit, you need to be clear about your intentions when it has an economical impact.


Furthermore, changing support gems or something like that (if you want to find exactly what you are talking about) is massively different then something people spend a fuck ton of their currency on.

I don't mean to add salt to the wound.
In my eyes, I expected this change even sooner than it happened, I was tempted to hop on that train, resisting the urge payed off in this case. Sorry for your monetary loss.

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aldorus wrote:

I don't mean to add salt to the wound.
In my eyes, I expected this change even sooner than it happened, I was tempted to hop on that train, resisting the urge payed off in this case. Sorry for your monetary loss.

I dont care about the monetary loss, the jewel was gifted to me. I'm making a post because others won't.

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goetzjam wrote:

Sorry, but are you saying it takes a lot of time to make a news post about a bugged item interaction? And therefore they might not have thought it was worthwhile to make it?

I can't agree with that at all. It would have been better for them to say literally nothing, except the patch notes, if that was the case, but as soon as you say something in a burried post here or on reddit, you need to be clear about your intentions when it has an economical impact.

You're probably right, but at the same time, there are time and reputation costs associated with announcement posts. People have commented that on these forums, GGG has to be very careful with what they say, because ordinary people (and not swarms of things) jump on official posts and pick them apart, piece by piece, for their interpretation of what they mean. What I've noticed is that they often run into a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation, where no matter what they say, you have people on both sides of the aisle condemning GGG for whatever they're talking about. That's probably a good reason why GGG is heavily incentivised to stay silent on contentious topics.

The "burried post" didn't express an opinion or estimate precisely because it stuck to the facts - there's a bug, and they've fixed it internally. That's usually pretty safe for a game company to say, but now you're saying it hurts their case? Ehhhh...

What I have noticed is that GGG seems to tend to give the middle finger, repeatedly, to the top 0.1% of players (per their statistics) in terms of communication. Did they ever even add tooltips for the whole thing about Masters' metacrafting mods not working on Essence uses to the game yet?? There are probably more examples of GGG ignoring the top of the top players (per their metrics), but I can't think of them off the top of my head at the moment.

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LowBudget780 wrote:

item wasn't really nerfed though, there were tons of posts online stating that it was bugged and it would be fixed eventually and from what I understand it also didn't give you the same amount of es in PoB compared to in-game. I also have a hard time believing people with 30+ challenges and the currency to afford an es build that utilizes such an item wouldn't have heard the news online somewhere at some point.

And the fact that it got nerfed now, yeah that sucks but shit happens, jewel was bugged. Why do you deserve a competitive advantage in the league using a bugged item?

Aye, and call me an erudition snob, but I would have expected the kind of people who have 30+ challenges as you say and the cash to drop on a Watcher's Eye to know what the actual mechanic behind what they're purchasing is and how it works. When an affix behaves differently from literally every other affix of its kind, it's a great sign that something isn't working right, or that you should do some research. Perhaps GGG thought this would have been obvious and therefore not worthy of commentary. At my job, I've learned that you have to expect that adults are going to be responsible adults and that you won't have to babysit them with constant reminders of their basic adult responsibilities - maybe the same idea applies here.

But I'm probably being overly optimistic in expecting people to understand the games the play.

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adghar wrote:

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goetzjam wrote:

Sorry, but are you saying it takes a lot of time to make a news post about a bugged item interaction? And therefore they might not have thought it was worthwhile to make it?

I can't agree with that at all. It would have been better for them to say literally nothing, except the patch notes, if that was the case, but as soon as you say something in a burried post here or on reddit, you need to be clear about your intentions when it has an economical impact.

You're probably right, but at the same time, there are time and reputation costs associated with announcement posts. People have commented that on these forums, GGG has to be very careful with what they say, because ordinary people (and not swarms of things) jump on official posts and pick them apart, piece by piece, for their interpretation of what they mean. What I've noticed is that they often run into a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation, where no matter what they say, you have people on both sides of the aisle condemning GGG for whatever they're talking about. That's probably a good reason why GGG is heavily incentivised to stay silent on contentious topics.

The "burried post" didn't express an opinion or estimate precisely because it stuck to the facts - there's a bug, and they've fixed it internally. That's usually pretty safe for a game company to say, but now you're saying it hurts their case? Ehhhh...

How is it different then when they took the effort to make a post about the VD enchant? How can anyone see how making a post about the VD enchant, but not this is counter-intuitive to their previous actions.


It hurts their case because when your using something, even if its bugged, you would expect GGG to say, especially when they did it with the VD enchant. That this is unintended and will be fixed (AND GIVE A FUCKING TIME FRAME)

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Item wasn't really nerfed though, there were tons of posts online stating that it was bugged and it would be fixed eventually and from what I understand it also didn't give you the same amount of es in PoB compared to in-game. I also have a hard time believing people with 30+ challenges and the currency to afford an es build that utilizes such an item wouldn't have heard the news online somewhere at some point.

Not everyone that uses the jewels likey have 30+ challenges completed, nor is challenges completed a metric of how far they go for information about the game.

Fact of the matter is that it was poorly communicated for this change, but the VD one was easily communicated. Why not make a post in the news as soon as you are aware of the bug, with your planned actions, instead of waiting weeks for Mark to come back and say "this is fixed internally no eta on patch" in some reddit thread and general questions thread.

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The fact that it got nerfed now, yeah that sucks but shit happens, jewel was bugged. Why do you deserve a competitive advantage in the league using a bugged item and think they should wait until season is over to fix it?

That "competitive advantage" came with a rather large price tag (for others), as I mentioned before the price of the jewel is determined by the power it has, not by the "expected nerf" it may eventually have.

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Why do you deserve a competitive advantage in the league using a bugged item and think they should wait until season is over to fix it?

Because there are people who cleared the whole league content with that advantage. Because this "advantage" is not insane, it doesn't bring your ES to 50k or 100k. It brings your ES to the amount which is comparable to old good times when you were able to get a 900-1k ES chests and have 15% more ES node behind the CI passive.

But mostly because its currently one of the most expensive things in the game. Nobody will refund the currency, but this item turns to be 2-2,5 times less effective now, and the prices will drop soon. For me, this is very unexpected, as i wasn't aware of any "bug" or something like that. It's a matter of formula - this jewel could have been initially intended to be like now. Easily. Its current cost reflects its high power. However, the devs "intention" was false, and the league was filled with stronger jewels at a high price. This is a new reality, so, perhaps, its better to correct the initial "intentions" and leave the jewel as it is until the end of season, instead of ruining people's POE experience?