Trade API Delays

Being at a disadvantage doesn't mean you're completely outclassed in all aspects. The ability to snipe items a few seconds faster than other players doesn't totally prevent those other players from amassing wealth, but it's still an advantage.

It's not even an advantage mostly based on game-mechanical skill, knowledge, or experience in Path of Exile. It's based on your available bandwidth and programming savvy, and I commend GGG for trying their best to level the playing field by nixing the influence of those two factors to some extent.

First, the delay is great. Second, asking us about it is also great.

Third, the sites that should be whitelisted for now, in my opinion, are:

- your own trade site
- poe.trade
- probably poeapp.com, though I have never used it


PLEASE do not whitelist anything that requires an executable to download. Focus on making the trade experience better using your own trade website. I would not even mind if your own site was the only site that was "whitelisted".

Every single site you whitelist increases the risk of catching that rotten egg where people then start sniping without you knowing it.

What's next? A mandatory 60seconds loading screen for everyone because some people have SSDs? Having a buy-back option from a trade you felt scammed in? All this control requires new resources and only opens up possibilities to mess things up, as they did. I already got spammed for items I had sold, etc. Any site they whitelist is in essence a "ggg" site from now on which can also lead to complications.

Until we get a real trading system in game leave it be, it worked fine until now. But hey, if GGG feels like they have the resources and will to vet every request and site that comes along their way and give their official seal of approval - be my guest. I am not affected either way, I just see 0 reason for anyone to start developing new tools that rely on real time access to the API.

The simple solution, Chris, is to set up a tiered filter for app developers.

Any random person or app calling upon the API has a 2 minute delay, for building the app.

People then can apply directly to GGG with their app to become an affiliate; they only get accepted if they have a proven working app. These people have a 60 second delay in their API calls.

If they build enough usage and community around the app, some arbitrary amount of users, or calls, or some way they prove that there's more than 10 people using the API (I'm thinking 1000), then they get a 15 second delay.

If then the app becomes more popular and has widespread use, they can apply again and remove the delay.



Having the people communicate with you directly with their intentions and the growth of their program will self-filter a lot of the highschool programmers looking to scam an item on the market. If someone has to work on their program, but has clear steps and goals to achieve widespread success, it will limit the number of apps that achieve no-delay because it would cost more time to build the app than to scam a few choice items on the already whitelisted sites.

Obviously the timeframes above are subject to change. However with a clear progression path to upgrading your delay or "greylist" status would still allow innovation and the community to select good tools. The ease of use of poe.trade means it's way better than the official website, where even if the official website had no delay and poe.trade had a 30 second delay we'd all still use poe.trade.

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Onix095 wrote:

Thanks again for the relatively smooth launch GGG! Can't wait to buy that map stash tab!

Hear Ye Hear Ye

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liquidSG wrote:

What's next? A mandatory 60seconds loading screen for everyone because some people have SSDs?

No, GGG seems to try to make PoE's gameplay better, not worse, as this API delay shows.

well looks like ggg aint fix the problems with low texture and so on, so every one can play, instead they fix useless stuff like the trade website, some said from GGG it will happen at monday to fix this shit

I'm happy with the API changes so far (as long as they actually function as intended now).

Going forward, I would like a clearcut and easy path to whitelisting for public, browser-based trade searching tools, no matter how "small", as long as they do not stress the API by requesting data at some higher rate than the current whitelisted tools do. As long as someone knows that their site will get whitelisted if they follow certain clear guidelines, then the incentive for people to develop new and better tools remains robust.

However, the guidelines should strictly require that any tool be public to anyone who cares to use them, and not require any executable, installation, or app in order to use.

Any tool that requires a .exe should never be whitelisted based on obvious security concerns. If GGG whitelists a tool that later updates to include some sort of malware or spyware it will be a PR nightmare.

Any tool that requires making a 3rd party account or requires some sort of invite to access should also be left off the whitelist, as advantages for a small number of users requesting data much more frequently is the exact problem that the whitelist is intended to fix.

As long as those guidelines are in place, I think GGG will be on the right track and aligned with the interests of the vast majority of players. Thanks for asking for our feedback on this important issue!

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thezensei wrote:

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Chris wrote:

Whitelisting
The community needs to decide who we're going to whitelist. So far we've been turning down small tools and private tools so that people can't use the data for private sniping. The theory is that a small unpopular tool can use the delayed data until it's substantially complete/useful and then with the community's support, can ask to be whitelisted.

But what about public tools that aim to be faster than the existing trade sites? No one (publicly) likes sniping, but everyone likes a better trade experience and faster data. What if the tool has to be run on your computer, encouraging people to install arbitrary executables? There are pros and cons to each that we need to discuss, because they have a large impact on the fairness of trade.

My two cents.

Having a tool "prove itself" will become a catch 22. There's nobody who will use tools that have an inherent disadvantage, and thus will not be able to prove itself.

Nobody wants to put down countless hours of effort, and they have no idea if GGG will reject them because of whatever unknown factor. I think it's important to have clear guidelines for people who want to contribute to the community tools ecosystem.

Consumers of existing tools say "we're fine with poe.trade, we don't need anything else". Xyz probably agrees. Competition and choice drive innovation. Up to you if you want that or not.

My suggestion is: Be fair, open and transparent. Clear guidelines.

That was my main concern, Even though I love the 60-second delay to stop private sniping tools, the whitelist idea needs to be reviewed.

like stated above, it's a catch 22, where you need to be popular to get the instant API, but unless you already have instant API you can't be popular.

The alternative to be whitelisted would be to have certain criteria met. for example (this is just off the top of my head)

1- the tool needs to be available publically.
2- the tool needs to be updated and maintained regularly
3- the tool needs to be somewhat useful.

this way if there is a serious community member that wants to spend the time and energy to develop and maintain a tool, that he has the opportunity to grow and surpass current tools.

this would need resources from GGG staff to review and maintain the whitelist so that abandoned projects get removed while new ones can take their place.

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Chris wrote:

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enemymigs wrote:

:/ favoritism favoritism favoritism favoritism favoritism

What would you suggest we do?

LOL remove the API and add in-game trade system....