65,000 Armor vs Shaper

Isn't part of the issue with using armor for mitigation that as the damage from the hit increases, the percent damage reduction decreases? eg: against many small hits, it is wonderful, but against a single big hit, not so much?

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SlippyCheeze wrote:

Isn't part of the issue with using armor for mitigation that as the damage from the hit increases, the percent damage reduction decreases? eg: against many small hits, it is wonderful, but against a single big hit, not so much?

Yes, you´re right but he´s using Aegis shield that offers ES recovered based on total amount of your armor rating.

He can still use some charges/taste of hate and such for extra mitigation.

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Vipermagi wrote:

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SlippyCheeze wrote:

Isn't part of the issue with using armor for mitigation that as the damage from the hit increases, the percent damage reduction decreases? eg: against many small hits, it is wonderful, but against a single big hit, not so much?

Did you read the thread? The entire thread has been about soaking very large amounts of Damage.

While the relative reduction against large Hits is smaller, the absolute mitigation (the flat value) is much better against larger Hits. The additive nature of Armour and ECharges, as well as other %PDR sources, also massively improves its true effectiveness against large Hits. Going from 30% to 45% PDR by having Armour is p. good.

I did, and I didn't understand it well enough. Maybe I phrased my question badly or something.

Anyway, now you have explained what the logic is. I'd still kind of like to know how the "less mitigation vs big damage" stuff maths out, but whatever, at least I can see completely how it is being done. So thanks to you, and the other responder. :)

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SlippyCheeze wrote:

I'd still kind of like to know how the "less mitigation vs big damage" stuff maths out

I can break down the math.

Let's take the most extreme example to show how armor is good against big hits. Let's take a shaper slam, that does a critical hit on you, which does 22,187 damage.

I think most people would agree that is almost impossible to survive for most builds no matter what you do if it ever hits you. And a lot of people would say armor does nothing against that much damage. And let's actually work it out to see what it does.

For 65,000 armor. You only get a reduction of 22% using the armor formula, which comes out to 17,159 damage.

65,000 Armor = 17,159 damage taken.

Now, a lot of people stop here and say. Armor sucks. You still die even with lots of armor.

What they forget is that armor's physical reduction stacks with other flat physical reductions from your tree, skills, endurance charges, and pantheon abilities.

If you include all the flat physical reduction bonuses I have, including endurance charges, and pantheon bonuses. You get 28% physical reduction.

You add 22% from armor to 28% physical damage reduction (PDR) from the skill tree etc...and you get 50% physical damage reduction.

So, the damage you take from 22,187 damage is only 10,947, which is a lot better then getting hit for 17,159 damage.

If you have 0 armor. You'd take 15,974 damage using the same formula. That's 5,000 more damage you are taking with 0 armor and relying just on your skill tree and pantheon skills. (aka a ton of armor saved you from an extra 5,000 damage from a huge hit, which for most people is like 70-90% of your life).

And on top of all if that, if I have fortify. You only get hit for 8757, which a few builds can tank. So, it went from being virtually impossible to tank 22,159 damage. To being plausible for quite a few of the current harbringer builds to survive, having a ton of armor.

Now, if you can tank 22,159 damage. You can kinda see how armor can be pretty ridiculous against hits that do 8,000 damage or 9,000 damage.

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SlippyCheeze wrote:

I'd still kind of like to know how the "less mitigation vs big damage" stuff maths out

https://imgur.com/EEQfere

Graph showing 650 armour vs 65000 5 endurance charges and arctic armour.

Not sure how accurate this still is.. it's a little dated- like before PoeBuilder was a thing. Anyway, focus your attention on either the top left graph (% damage taken vs phy dmg hit) or top right (actual dmg taken vs phy dmg hit). Bottom graphs shows top right graph but in smaller chunks.

I made this spread sheet to get a better grasp on armour long time ago. To answer the same question you have...

Hopefully these graphs show visually what has been explained. Vs 10 physical dmg attacks 650 and 65000 provide the same defense. Vs 20 dmg we see the 650 armour starts to allow more % of the damage through. At very high physical hits (10,000), 650 amour lets through 99% or 9935 of the damage through while the 65000 build lets through only 3250 dmg.

So... comparing the two at very hard hits, having massive armour and other physical defenses makes 1 shots seem manageable.

edit: I decided it might show more if I posted another graph showing 650 armour vs 65000 armour only they both have 5 endurance charages and arctic armour up.

https://imgur.com/LFY5mGC

and one more showing if a granite flask is being used.

https://imgur.com/baoGkD5

Hopefully these 3 graphs show how effective getting more armour is.

This build seems good for lazy boss farming but terrible for actually playing the game :P Clear speed meta forever!

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codetaku wrote:

This build seems good for lazy boss farming but terrible for actually playing the game :P Clear speed meta forever!

GG I think we need more HoGM maps and 8 mod unid corrupted Guardian maps to obliterate these heathens.

And added Shaper Fight to show damage against slams.

I did look at your char(I am assuming it is deitify), and I did not understand why you went MoM if you use ES instead of life, as you take no dmg to life.

I also do not know why you took Heart and Soul.

Could you please explain?