Vaal Pact - The node make the game imbalance

Dont worry people, next league VP is getting gutted, just like CI was.

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krenderke wrote:

Prepare for 3.1 where everyone will complain, that regeneration is too op.

You still as 90% of player base DONT GET IT.
Es was broken , VP is broken .
You say youve been around since close beta.
I been longer then you around, and let me tell you somethign before POE was a game for hardcore players , today is a Facebook game compared to what poe once was.
I remeber going out to farm Sarns for gear and levels as you would get 1 shot by piety and now people complain for Kitava.
Game its to damn easy ,only problem is damage spikes , mobs do no damage atm.

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kshuxxx wrote:

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krenderke wrote:

Prepare for 3.1 where everyone will complain, that regeneration is too op.

You still as 90% of player base DONT GET IT.
Es was broken , VP is broken .
You say youve been around since close beta.
I been longer then you around, and let me tell you somethign before POE was a game for hardcore players , today is a Facebook game compared to what poe once was.
I remeber going out to farm Sarns for gear and levels as you would get 1 shot by piety and now people complain for Kitava.
Game its to damn easy ,only problem is damage spikes , mobs do no damage atm.

No YOU still don't get. Because according to you EVERYTHING is broken. ES,VP, Flasks, AOE practically everything what was nerfed. What will left for fun? NOTHING. Because they nerfed already everything in history of the game. You will wake up once alone, in boring game where every1 left.

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kshuxxx wrote:

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krenderke wrote:

Prepare for 3.1 where everyone will complain, that regeneration is too op.

You still as 90% of player base DONT GET IT.
Es was broken , VP is broken .
You say youve been around since close beta.
I been longer then you around, and let me tell you somethign before POE was a game for hardcore players , today is a Facebook game compared to what poe once was.
I remeber going out to farm Sarns for gear and levels as you would get 1 shot by piety and now people complain for Kitava.
Game its to damn easy ,only problem is damage spikes , mobs do no damage atm.

The game needs to evolve or it will die. Gamers don't want to dick around killing 1 mob per second on their single target heavy strike face breaker build because it feels more tactical.

I agree that VP doesn't imbalance the game; the game itself has a very odd knifes-edge sort of balance. VP is the only route we have to staying alive while using half the abilities in this game.

The bigger issues, as stated, are damage spikes and forced low health pools. The game should certainly feel dangerous, but not because I blinked.

Leech without VP gets better as our HP pools go up, so if we ditched VP and specc'd into more life leeched/s and built our HP values up it could potentially value back out. Instant healing potions to help your missteps. I think that was the idea to the game, but VP really does force them into scaring you off with 6k+ damage boss abilities.

If our HP went up a fair amount, our leech went down, and we reduced the boss damage but increased the speed of the fights... IDK, I'm not a game dev, but something's gonna happen. I think we just hope it doesn't suck. :)

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L337N00bH4X0r wrote:

I agree that VP doesn't imbalance the game; the game itself has a very odd knifes-edge sort of balance. VP is the only route we have to staying alive while using half the abilities in this game.

The bigger issues, as stated, are damage spikes and forced low health pools. The game should certainly feel dangerous, but not because I blinked.

Leech without VP gets better as our HP pools go up, so if we ditched VP and specc'd into more life leeched/s and built our HP values up it could potentially value back out. Instant healing potions to help your missteps. I think that was the idea to the game, but VP really does force them into scaring you off with 6k+ damage boss abilities.

If our HP went up a fair amount, our leech went down, and we reduced the boss damage but increased the speed of the fights... IDK, I'm not a game dev, but something's gonna happen. I think we just hope it doesn't suck. :)

Or they could make VP leech only for melee attack. Because melee need some protection. Melee doesn't have range advantage.

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kshuxxx wrote:

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Darshek78 wrote:

WTF are you smoking??
If you've never used VP, stop suggesting how it functions.
With the insane spike's and half dozen volatile's every freaking map,you HAVE to use pots with VP.
Can't leech aoe clouds. How do you think we heal with Desecrated ground?

Didnt want to say it but seems i must:
If u need life pots with VP u are daaaamn bad
at this game.
How you survive desecrated ground without pots ?How about you dont stand in it ?
You do know every flask can roll imune to bleeding mod?if u cant manage to deal with bleeding without a life flask there is a pair of boots that makes you imune to it .
And what would a life flask 600 instant or 500 per sec regen noninstant one .what diference it makes when u leech 50000 life instant with VP ?
And yes i play VP and No i dont use a life flask there are so many beetter damage or defence pots then a USELESS life flask for VP builds.
Funny thing is even when i did half regen maps with my RF i still didnt use life flasks , what would a under 1000 life regen per sec do to my 11k hp marauder when he regens 4.7 k life with consecrated ground flask ?
And you tell to people to get better at game ?
As Havoc said people who cried about ES nerf are people who are bad at game , people who like to face tank stuff , dont use pots effectivly and who just like to smash buttons without using their brain.
He proved you can get lvl 100 without Vp without regen without your so beloved life flask.
Why ES was broken ?coz you could leech 20 k es instant and could literly facetank any content and not die without getting 1 shot,THAT IS BORING TO ME .

The only toon of yours not stripped is a barrage pathfinder aka Ranged.

Comparing pot use on a ranged toon to a melee toon. Really? lol

Cyclone through mobs, get stacks of bleed while passing through desecrate. Everythings dead, where you gonna leech? Immune bleed stops bleed but not chaos damage.Immune bleed health flask stops bleed,heals and buffers against desecrate. Dont step in desecrate? Its everywhere, does your toon fly?
24 characters and u have 1 lvl 90 ranged.

Come back when you break 90 with melee.

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Kastmar wrote:

Or they could make VP leech only for melee attack. Because melee need some protection. Melee doesn't have range advantage.

Yeah! Maybe we could tag certain gems with 'Attack with this gem cannot leech life instantly from any source'? So slowly single out problematic abilities, like Barrage? Feels like people might get defensive, it's tricky. :/

This single node has caused the most amount of imbalance in the game. The best defense is a good offense, they say. Yeap, that is Vaal Pact in a nutshell.

In every ARPG, there are 3 broad factors that determine gameplay.

1) Offence - Pure offense gives you the glass cannon
2) Defense - Pure defense gives you the tank
3) Sustain - To support Offence / Defense builds. Sustain in theory should be a subset of Defense.

Any ARPG needs to somehow find the magical "balance" between these 3 stats. Many have tried, and nearly all have failed.

Vaal Pact has taken the holy trinity and turned it on its head. The higher the offence = the higher the sustain. This is a Terrible Idea as sustain has become a subset of Offence. Vaal Pact has removed the "glass" in "glass cannon". Why "get out of the fire" when all it does is keep you warm.

Vaal Pact has made Defense almost irrelevant. All you need to do is to prevent 1-shot hits which was exactly the reason why ES/CI in 2.60 was so powerful. The sheer amount of ES negated all 1 shot abilities and life lost was leeched back in a nano-second. Vaal Pact makes the game almost impossible to balance as the developer's need to scale damage higher and higher made for inevitable 1 shot damage which we all feel is "unfair". As long as Vaal Pact exists, 1 shot mechanics would co-exist.

The guiding light to this game is D2: LOD. Much of the thought process and gameplay stems from a game that was launched 17 years ago to much fanfare. As much as people dislike D3 in these forums, they did actually manage to balance sustain even if imperfectly.

Some Suggestions
- Remove Vaal Pact: When you can tank through the most powerful ability in the game (Shaper's beam), something is very wrong. Nerf to ES simply made players migrate to life. What did they share in common? Vaal Pact.
- Increase Leech Rate: Double it for range and triple it for melee. Make it work for spells too at an adjusted rate. Employ half the effect of leech on Ghost Reaver to recognize that ES can obtain much larger pools.
- Buff Armour / Evasion: These defensive stats have been largely forgotten in an instant leech game.
- Adjust Monster Damage: Tone down incoming burst damage to take into account lower sustain. Hardcore players would love this.

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L337N00bH4X0r wrote:

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Kastmar wrote:

Or they could make VP leech only for melee attack. Because melee need some protection. Melee doesn't have range advantage.

Yeah! Maybe we could tag certain gems with 'Attack with this gem cannot leech life instantly from any source'? So slowly single out problematic abilities, like Barrage? Feels like people might get defensive, it's tricky. :/

90% of the bow builds are more melee,than melee builds and cant even get fortify.

If VP didnt work with bows, everyone would play bladeflurry, that's not how you balance the game.