Vaal Pact - The node make the game imbalance

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Child_Of_Hundreds wrote:

you guys who cry for vp nerf do realise that wont bring any new builds to the table right? nerf = kill the build available now, most of the self cast and melee build will simply vanish cause totem and rf and necro will be better in every way. while most people are using vp or slayer, this doesnt mean they will create new build without it. after es nerf no new es related build surfacce, after kill double dipping, no new dot build emerge, and you want the vp gone? just tell me what do YOU think people will player after?

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Kastmar wrote:

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Nephalim wrote:

The current balance state of the game is in shambles and the main reason was GGG treating the original aegis aurora tank builds in open beta like anthrax.

Why is GGG so terrified of tanks? Because players who can not die, will eventually level to 100 and this the most dangerous thing for them since their income relies on donations and players who "finish" the game are less likely to donate. The game since they has added more and more rip mechanics (corrupting blood, violatiles, crit, burst damage, overtuned mobs) until the current state we see here. This has never been about hardcore gaming or challenging game play with the developers actually encourage log out macro abuse.

There tends to be two groups of players, the ones who whine about VP being imbalanced without understand the 5 year development history of poe and the others who just want to feel powerful in a game that does everything to keep players in progression poverty.

VP is the last vestige of defense after life nodes, block, max resists, armour, CI have been wiped out. I have lost much of my faith in GGG's vision and ability to effectively balance end game.

Agreed. After all nerfs nothing left.

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If you want to bring better balance and diversity in the game, sometimes an OP stuff should be nerfed or even removed (and VP is very OP stuff). But of course, balancing should be performed correctly, with rebalancing other sustain mechanics as well after VP gets removed.

GGG performs their "balancing" without any foresight or rebalacing. AoE was OP? GGG nerfs it to the ground, and now everyone uses projectiles. ES was OP? GGG nerfs it to the ground and now everyone uses Berserker+VP...
If nerf is performed properly, it wont literally "destroy" a build, and it wont limit build diversity.

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MortalKombat3 wrote:

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Nephalim wrote:

Why is GGG so terrified of tanks? Because players who can not die, will eventually level to 100 and this the most dangerous thing for them since their income relies on donations and players who "finish" the game are less likely to donate.

It is a wrong mentality, actually.

First, do you (or GGG) think that player cant get bored and leave before reaching 100 level? I, for example, stop playing in league when i have 90-93 level, because grinding experience all the way to 100 is just a plain boredom for me, and it doesnt bring any significant bonuses, etc. (just a 8-15% higher DPS or 4-6% higher HP). When i reach my endgame goals, endgame gear, etc - i usually get bored with current build, and it doesnt matter much that i'm not lvl100 yet.

Second, why do you think that player, who got bored with his current build, cant start playing another build? To make that happen often, game should have huge build diversity (both in passive trees, items, skills, etc.). And there shouldnt be a clear "winner build", that deals better DPS, has higher AoE and defences, etc - literally, makes everything better than 10-15 other options. Because when player tries that "clear winner" build, he wont have fun playing other, weaker builds.

For example, i played with full physical Sunder Slayer with Disfavour and Kaom. But eventually, i get bored, after i could kill Shaper without deaths, farm T16 maps, etc.
So i tried another build, Slayer with cold-based Blade Flurry (with rare rapier), using Kaom and Tempest's Binding. I bought great gear for that build (the best i could get for reasonable price of maximum few exalts per piece), i honed it in PoB, got 20/20 gems, etc. Still, my new build now has ~800 less HP, has less range, kills slower (especially harbinger packs), cant run reflect, has big DPS drops against resist or EE map,d quickly loses LL stacks on boss and cant easily overcap resists or get decent chaos resistance.
Is he viable? Sure, i killed Shaper with him, and i'm still being able to farm T16. But he just feels weaker, than my previous build, period. I dont have any fun playing him, being weak just because you made a DIFFERENT choice causes only frustration. I want to play Slayer with something different from Disfavour + Kaom + Sunder, but whatever i'll try in PoB, it always makes a weaker, less tanky build and still without impressive DPS (unless i go full glass cannon and will die from oneshot from guardians or even T16 mobs).
If GGG cares to bring more option to around the same power level, i'd fell much better and would play longer.
For VP, there are a LOT of options viable (because VP is so OP itself), actually, while for really good Slayer, they're very limited.

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That's your sight, who already knew that something so strong before and had been nerfed. But with newbies, who never been experienced any losts, they look the game is a fair game.
Well, i won't hope GGG remove this node, even GGG created an awesome leech mechanic, many builds will need the idea of instant leech. I just need this node will become something people will think about the price seriously before picking it, like Acrobatics

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Nephalim wrote:

As for build diversity, this is just an illusion. Does 3.0 have more tier 1 viable builds than pre 3.0? No, not really, if anything it has far less. Balance and diversity do not always go hand in hand. I would rather have 10 awesomely unique but potentially overpowered builds than 4 well balanced but mechanically similar builds. Your own main build is proof enough of how vapid the meta is. Life node stacking on a koam's heart and acrobatics because armour is worthless.

What has 3.0 really amount to? Every goes belly of the beast and koams heart and stacks nothing but life nodes because other generic forms of defense are terrible and ES is as good as dead. ES went from god tier to trash tier not because ES values got hurt but because it no longer worked with VP.
You are simply feeding into GGG's selfish agenda by asking for a VP nerf which would gimp the remaining number of builds.

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Nephalim wrote:

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MortalKombat3 wrote:

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Nephalim wrote:

Why is GGG so terrified of tanks? Because players who can not die, will eventually level to 100 and this the most dangerous thing for them since their income relies on donations and players who "finish" the game are less likely to donate.

It is a wrong mentality, actually.

First, do you (or GGG) think that player cant get bored and leave before reaching 100 level? I, for example, stop playing in league when i have 90-93 level, because grinding experience all the way to 100 is just a plain boredom for me, and it doesnt bring any significant bonuses, etc. (just a 8-15% higher DPS or 4-6% higher HP). When i reach my endgame goals, endgame gear, etc - i usually get bored with current build, and it doesnt matter much that i'm not lvl100 yet.

Second, why do you think that player, who got bored with his current build, cant start playing another build? To make that happen often, game should have huge build diversity (both in passive trees, items, skills, etc.). And there shouldnt be a clear "winner build", that deals better DPS, has higher AoE and defences, etc - literally, makes everything better than 10-15 other options. Because when player tries that "clear winner" build, he wont have fun playing other, weaker builds.

For example, i played with full physical Sunder Slayer with Disfavour and Kaom. But eventually, i get bored, after i could kill Shaper without deaths, farm T16 maps, etc.
So i tried another build, Slayer with cold-based Blade Flurry (with rare rapier), using Kaom and Tempest's Binding. I bought great gear for that build (the best i could get for reasonable price of maximum few exalts per piece), i honed it in PoB, got 20/20 gems, etc. Still, my new build now has ~800 less HP, has less range, kills slower (especially harbinger packs), cant run reflect, has big DPS drops against resist or EE map,d quickly loses LL stacks on boss and cant easily overcap resists or get decent chaos resistance.
Is he viable? Sure, i killed Shaper with him, and i'm still being able to farm T16. But he just feels weaker, than my previous build, period. I dont have any fun playing him, being weak just because you made a DIFFERENT choice causes only frustration. I want to play Slayer with something different from Disfavour + Kaom + Sunder, but whatever i'll try in PoB, it always makes a weaker, less tanky build and still without impressive DPS (unless i go full glass cannon and will die from oneshot from guardians or even T16 mobs).
If GGG cares to bring more option to around the same power level, i'd fell much better and would play longer.
For VP, there are a LOT of options viable (because VP is so OP itself), actually, while for really good Slayer, they're very limited.

Not to sound rude but your highest character is 93 followed by 91, GGG's has done a great job keeping you in level poverty and as a result, somewhat still continuing to play the game but you are just one data point. Many players in level poverty will continue to play much longer than if they reached level 100 but as you said some will still get bored before reaching 100. That is not the point, the point is point is that it works on many players besides you.

As for build diversity, this is just an illusion. Does 3.0 have more tier 1 viable builds than pre 3.0? No, not really, if anything it has far less. Balance and diversity do not always go hand in hand. I would rather have 10 awesomely unique but potentially overpowered builds than 4 well balanced but mechanically similar builds. Your own main build is proof enough of how vapid the meta is. Life node stacking on a koam's heart and acrobatics because armour is worthless.

What has 3.0 really amount to? Every goes belly of the beast and koams heart and stacks nothing but life nodes because other generic forms of defense are terrible and ES is as good as dead. ES went from god tier to trash tier not because ES values got hurt but because it no longer worked with VP.
You are simply feeding into GGG's selfish agenda by asking for a VP nerf which would gimp the remaining number of builds.

GGG has proven incapable of balance that does not result in the total and absolute removal of a mechanic or build. Look at every powerful build or mechanic in the past and look where it is now. VP will likely might not as well exist next patch and we have players like you to thank for you.

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That's your sight, who already knew that something so strong before and had been nerfed. But with newbies, who never been experienced any losts, they look the game is a fair game.
Well, i won't hope GGG remove this node, even GGG created an awesome leech mechanic, many builds will need the idea of instant leech. I just need this node will become something people will think about the price seriously before picking it, like Acrobatics

In 3.0 with ES dead and the armor mostly defunct unless you can stack it to the sky, there is very little reason to not take acrobatics.

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Child_Of_Hundreds wrote:

but no dev are perfect, and GGG's history of nerfing has never been good, since open beta, its not too much to say not even once... an overhaul balance perfectly settle all the defense and offense mechanic? nice thought, just dont see it happen, not by GGG, and surely not by you and me. VP as right now worked, majority of the melee/self cast build exist solely because of it. want to remove it? find a new way to make other mechanic work FIRST! otherwise whats the difference from the history, coc dead, ci dead, poison dead, aoe dead

also, we HAVE diversity, just mostly under vp as the defense mechanic. but without it? we WILL lose the offense diversity too. long live the RF

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Kastmar wrote:

As for build diversity, this is just an illusion. Does 3.0 have more tier 1 viable builds than pre 3.0? No, not really, if anything it has far less. Balance and diversity do not always go hand in hand. I would rather have 10 awesomely unique but potentially overpowered builds than 4 well balanced but mechanically similar builds. Your own main build is proof enough of how vapid the meta is. Life node stacking on a koam's heart and acrobatics because armour is worthless.