[3.0] Molten Strike Berserker: Weapon choice analysis [WITH MATH]

@damcio3

I'm about to give this a go and was wondering if assassins curse the way to go? Would frostbite/blasphemy be better? or is it actually worth having the extra crit for EO? Also considering you can't apply Ass curse through that setup on bossfights.

And is there a reason we use wrath instead of hatred? Is it just more flat elemental damage? Or would hatred scale better with our cold damage buffs?

Thanks!

I have assassin's mark on my CoH setup because I'm too lazy to change that. It's not bad, it makes maintaining EO uptime high really easy. Ele weakness + wrath is the best dmg setup for bosses.
Hatred is bad because it gives you cold damage based on your phys dmg which is really low.

so took this guy to level 86 , still lot of work to do,esp jewels . the good ones cost a ton
and im still playing around with gem setups ,and the build still feels very much all over the place , trying to lock on to an optimal one

one surprising thing is frostblades socketed in a tempest binding mask synergies with the build quite nicely, of the builds i have played so far this league this has been my fastest clearing one, with biscos !!

feels like a glass cannon of sort can get one shot very fast , cwdt with bladefall is sort of helping me atm, i played an inquistor with claw moltenstrike before and he was able to tank gorge boss's leapslam ,with similar health, this toon hasnt been able to..but once he goes into that rest mode can kill him, also killed the abyss boss without much of a problem , planning to try guardians and other t15 level maps , upto t12 and shaped maps upto t14 has been a breeze ,with exceptions and for the occasional one shots and harbingers hitting u hard

im still not sure about between these two gems- hypothermia and elemental focus gem, for the molten strike link,POB shows more dps for the latter , but since we have cold interactions i want to know whether the hypothermia gem serves better

Great read, nice to see the build in action too (Screenshots from other players)

hey guys, I did this build and took it pretty far. Here's a deathless shaper I did. Definitely could of played the third phase a bit better but I was super sleepy :S.

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/181366466

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leakvoid wrote:

Final results, not doing this shit anymore.
Everything is on(frenzy charges, vaal haste, onslaught, Vinktar's, golem, max rolled rings, belt and jewels):

Maxed BLS (unreal gear, doesn't exist): 1489858.7 DPS
https://pastebin.com/MxeS3tVz

Maxed Frostbreath (closer to reality gear): 1441490.0 DPS
https://pastebin.com/K9NJkHbj

^ Difference: BLS deals 3.3% MORE damage

Maxed Frostbreath with Hyrri's Ire (glass canon): 1599073.1 DPS

^ Difference: Frostbreath deals 7.3% MORE damage

Difference in HP: considering BLS users will have ~1000 more strength (500 hp), but helmet, gloves and boots w/o hp (minus ~300-450 hp, plus 158 hp from ring rolls). And Frostbreath having the possibility to wear Kaom's roots and belly of the beast, frostbreath will have more hp in the end (minus 158 hp from ring rolls, hp rolls on boots, gloves and helmet; more increased maximum life from jewels and passive tree overall).

Conclusion: Frostbreath has the option to have either MORE HP or MORE damage.

leakvoid why did you do all the crap with PoB not using gloves and all that? Unless there was a reason for it you did it to confuse the issue. I'm glad you included everything here but in the future just do this from the beginning, no one will ever be walking around without gloves...

I've been messing around with a 2H Moltenstrike build. Maxing gear out on PoB, it looks like 2H can get quite a bit more DPS albeit with the higher cost of a rare weapon and Hysteria Rings.

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Difference in HP: considering BLS users will have ~1000 more strength (500 hp), but helmet, gloves and boots w/o hp (minus ~300-450 hp, plus 158 hp from ring rolls). And Frostbreath having the possibility to wear Kaom's roots and belly of the beast, frostbreath will have more hp in the end (minus 158 hp from ring rolls, hp rolls on boots, gloves and helmet; more increased maximum life from jewels and passive tree overall).

You don't need to wear Black Sun helmet, can stick to a rare. So you get life there. Rare gloves will also blow the Meginord's out of the water, MV are only good for a budget BLS build. So more life there as well. You don't really get the possibility to wear Kaom's with Frostbreath unless you completely ignore Blind effect from Pandemonius. There is nothing stopping BLS build from wearing Belly as well. All in all, BLS builds can match dps of Frostbreath while have 700-1k more life at the same time, without difficulties.

But lets take a look at your pastebins:
- They're level 100, which isn't really achievable to a regular player. I'll drop it to 92, but that means that the tree cannot go through the right side as in your pastebin, and in fact majority of BLS builds don't path that way. But pathing itself isn't really a problem.
- You've basically put on a white Heavy Belt with low rolls in BLS version. Why? No idea, other then trying to make Frostbreath look better. I'll put strength/life/WED belt instead to match level of other pieces of gear.
- Instead of T1 fire on rings I'm going to use t5 fire and t3 WED, which is much more common (and better!), and I'm adding life rolls.
- I'm reducing Strength on all rare gear to 45 from 55, more achievable. Which works in favour of your claim - cause I'm not here to shit on your ideas.
- I'm adding Lightning Golem to both setups.
- I'm replacing Meginord's with a decent rare pair.
- I'm adding basic 3 stat jewels to all slots in both setups.
- I do not understand what is preventing BLS user from using Belly of the Beast. No strength? I guess extra 500 life is worth losing 3-4% dps, which is more or less 1-2 passive points. 500 life is more like 4-5 passives, so it's a net gain.
- I'm going to use exact same rares on Frostbreath build, because even if strength doesn't contribute to dps, it does contribute to lifepool - which makes comparison easier.
- I'm not going to use Kaom's Roots, because then your Blinding of the enemies is completely wasted. So rare it is.
- Why are you using 21/20 Added Cold, where all the other gems everywhere are always 20/20? I'm reducing it down, 21/20 -> 20/20. Want to be fair, be fair.

Result:
- Brutus Lead Sprinkler: 546k dps, 7404 life. https://pastebin.com/9wEh1UKV
- Frostbreath: 483k dps, 6638 life. https://pastebin.com/NpWHgzzk
Conclusion: BLS has 13% more dps and almost 750 more life.


Moving on to "perfect gear" comparison:
- Upped all gems to 21/20. Why should only Frostbreath get 21/20 Cold gem?
- Putting rare items with same life amounts in all relevant slots. Belt/helmet slots get more life then rings etc.
- Added Blood Rage.

Result:
- BLS: 1720k dps, 8265 life. https://pastebin.com/ND49K6Df
- Frostbreath: 1613k dps, 7320 life. https://pastebin.com/Mgmv4GEV
Conclusion: BLS still has more dps while having over 900 more life.
You can say that BLS pastebin is using unrealistic gear (rings). https://pastebin.com/5YYEC9Xh
That's pretty much just flat fire, strength and 42 WED rings (WED rolls were reduced to get 42 with Opal implicit). 1620k dps, which is still matching Frostbreath, and still more then 900 life.
What if we drop level to 92?
- BLS: 1450k dps, 7456 life. https://pastebin.com/kw92PymG
- Frostbreath: 1560k dps, 6376 life. https://pastebin.com/uL6Dtx9e
So Frostbreath got a whooping 7% more dps at the cost of 1080 life. But if we put Belly on, we can end up with:
- BLS: 1647k dps, 6672 life. https://pastebin.com/auftA5dm
Which is now around 6-7% more dps then Frostbreath as well as having 300 more life.

I have no idea how you've come to the conclusion that BLS is worse then Frostbreath, other then the price tag.
And like some people already said in this thread, why not just admit that Frostbreath is worse then BLS but almost equally good as BLS considering currency invested and make a starter Molten Strike build guide for it? Because otherwise I don't see the point of your thread. It is either wrong or misleading on purpose, and your claim BLS<Frostbreath is supported by flawed analysis of the pastebins (since Belly is pretty much BiS for BLS builds exactly due to amount of flat life they get, not a rare unless on a budget).
BLS is better then Frostbreath, but Frostbreath is cheaper to start and can reach very similar (but worse) dps/life ratios, and is definately much better on a lower budget.

You're wrong with just about every point you're trying to make. There were other two clowns who tried to make unsubstantiated claims for the sake of arguing - typical traits of teenagers, extremely annoying to deal with.

- You cannot swap helmet without losing too much damage, I pointed out absolute maximum amount of strength already and respective DPS, look above.

- You're restricted from using Belly because it's takes too much effort to max out resistances otherwise. There is other popular BLS build which wears belly, but his resistances ~40% without max resistance flasks.

- the difference between traveling through right side of the tree vs ranger area is two travelling points at best (gets trumped by high value points on the right side), because ranger area is too awful (either x2 +8% mana or x2 stun avoidance and MS, both 0 value); from right side you get extra jewel and some efficient life nodes(herbalism, thick skin 22% for 4 points) + exponential damage boost from Primeval Force => worth.
Without going too in-depth, the value of each point is relative, e.g. it's the same for 10 dex + 10% life OR 5% life + 5% life. 5% life or 12% damage is exactly 1 value point, 40% damage + 5% ele pen is > 4 points etc., any travelling point is waste.

- Non Megirold's perfect rare gloves provide extremely small DPS increase to even bother switching, could be the viewed as additional source of resists I suppose.

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You've basically put on a white Heavy Belt with low rolls in BLS version. Why? No idea, other then trying to make Frostbreath look better. I'll put strength/life/WED belt instead to match level of other pieces of gear.

I literally put out final version with every perfect item for both BLS and FB. Everyting is perfect, there is belt with t1 strength and t1 WED, there is rings with t1 fire damage, t1 strength, t1 wed. OPEN YOUR EYES.
That other belt is for whiny child who needed exactly 1300 strength and he got it.

- I'm using 21 corruption for flat damage gems only. For other gems corruption is too small and provides the same marginal increase for either build.

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- Brutus Lead Sprinkler: 546k dps, 7404 life. https://pastebin.com/9wEh1UKV
- Frostbreath: 483k dps, 6638 life. https://pastebin.com/NpWHgzzk

Your math is wrong, I'm not gonna reinstall this shit game to verify it. There is proof of MORE damage for FB with perfect gear (look PerfectGear section in guide), if you somehow managed to get BLS higher, just swap onslaught with Sin's Rebirth flask for FB, should always tip the DPS in favor of FB.

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Because otherwise I don't see the point of your thread.

The point of this thread is to tilt teenagers who are bad at math.

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unsubstantiated claims for the sake of arguing[/b]

Are you so arrogant and stuck up your arse that you cannot accept critique of any kind? I have provided you pastebins for you to check - BLS wins in both dps and life amounts if you bothered to check. It's not my fault that you cannot wrap your head around your mistakes and resort to calling people clowns/teenagers.

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- You cannot swap helmet without losing too much damage, I pointed out absolute maximum amount of strength already and respective DPS, look above.

You aren't concentrating on reality. There aren't hordes of lab runners enchanting Black Sun, you are more likely to get a rare or other unique. Swapping a 55 strength rare is only a 3.6-3.9% dps loss, not anything major like 10%. It's perfectly acceptable if you want to have a well rounded build, since you can get more life on a rare and additional resistances.

"

- You're restricted from using Belly because it's takes too much effort to max out resistances otherwise. There is other popular BLS build which wears belly, but his resistances ~40% without max resistance flasks.

https://pastebin.com/auftA5dm
To cap resistances without Wise Oak, you need 290% total resistance with 13% res Belly. You got there 5 rare pieces of gear or 9 free suffixes, which means 32% single resistance per suffix to reach cap. It is restrictive, but isn't that hard. Especially if you go with some two-toned rings or whatever, that reduces the resist need to only 25 res per suffix. That's very easy to get.

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- I'm using 21 corruption for flat damage gems only. For other gems corruption is too small and provides the same marginal increase for either build.

Irrelevant. Point is you are favouring your idea this way and succomb to confirmation bias.

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- Non Megirold's perfect rare gloves provide extremely small DPS increase to even bother switching, could be the viewed as additional source of resists I suppose.

Using your own pastebin for perfect gear, changing Meginord's to "perfect rare gloves" with t1 strenght, t1 fire and t1 attack speed provides 4.1% more dps, which according to you is "extremely small". At the same time you say that "You cannot swap helmet without losing too much damage". In reality, just putting t2 strength and t2 attack speed gloves matches/beats Meginord's by 0.4%, and gives you more life/resistances.

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I literally put out final version with every perfect item for both BLS and FB. Everyting is perfect, there is belt with t1 strength and t1 WED, there is rings with t1 fire damage, t1 strength, t1 wed. OPEN YOUR EYES.
That other belt is for whiny child who needed exactly 1300 strength and he got it.

You are completely ignoring the life vs dps balance part. Add t4 life to all of that perfect BLS gear and you end up with 8234 life.
Put t1 life roll and perfect Belly on your Frostbreath link and you end up with 7300 life.
That's for pastebin where BLS has 1489858.7 DPS, and Frostbreath 1441490.0 DPS, per your admission.
Try to get that difference down and BLS is getting ahead in damage.

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just swap onslaught with Sin's Rebirth flask for FB

That's how much Sin's Rebirth adds to your Frostbreath setup.

"

There is proof of MORE damage for FB with perfect gear (look PerfectGear section in guide)

And there is proof that BLS does more damage/has more life in my pastebins. With or without perfect gear. You don't have to reinstall the game to analyze PoB links, and good job on calling this game shit, that will get a lot of people on your side. Especially after comparing BLS vs Frostbreath and using white belt in one of your pastebins so that Frostbreath could get ahead. Good job.