RF/ CWDT/ Warcry/ Storytime/ Sadface

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Vipermagi wrote:

Reducing the Degen so severely would make characters that can sustain current RF completely immortal, rather than 'merely' very powerful.

Immortal, how? I don't understand how you make that assumption...
Yes, if you run around on a lvl 90 char with maxed out overcap res, sick regen etc.,
while using a low lvl RF gem, you will take extremely little dmg, but also deal extremely little dmg!
Also the spell dmg "more multiplier" will be so low it's hardly worth running it.
Again, even though I made a graph, the numbers are just ballpark and can be changed even more to balance things, and avoid any possibility to "abuse" RF as a free buff that gives more dmg and costs nothing to maintain.

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Elemenz wrote:

Still anyone claiming this would be a bad idea?

Yes and I already explained why. Either you'd level the gem up and wouldn't be able to sustain it anymore in mid game until you switch to your endgame setup or you'd keep it low, do no damage and get a smallish amount of more spell damage for free. And no bonus is small enough if it comes for free, just look at golems.

So no, proposal rejected by the part of community limited to myself.

Do you both realise how ridiculous you sound, by suggesting that there are no numeric values on the chart, no curves or lines to be drawn which would make it work?

You have literally no concept of the idea of "balancing things out"...
Are you seriously this proud and blind and stubborn?

Look, I don't have the tools, enough data, interactive sliders to calculate dmg taken + dmg output + life regen cost etc., but can't you even grasp the idea of starting lower than RF is now, and building it up, like almost every other gem does?

Talking to a fucking brick wall here, geez...

Just play along with me and pretend you would HAVE to lower the original RF values so it could be maintained at much lower clvl.

What would those minimum numbers be?
Where would you set the bar at to allow yourself to sleep at night,
since my initial suggestion is apparently so upsetting to you?

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Elemenz wrote:

Do you both realise how ridiculous you sound, by suggesting that there are no numeric values on the chart, no curves or lines to be drawn which would make it work?

Can't meet a threshold with a curve, it will work on Onigoroshi because it has no threshold.

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raics wrote:

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Elemenz wrote:

Do you both realise how ridiculous you sound, by suggesting that there are no numeric values on the chart, no curves or lines to be drawn which would make it work?

Can't meet a threshold with a curve, it will work on Onigoroshi because it has no threshold.

Onigoroshi? What does a kind of Japanese alcohol have to do with this?


I saw mention of SSF in here, so let's nip that in the bud first: SSF is not balanced around. It is a self-imposed challenge for those who opt into it. Reducing the challenging part of it takes away from the experience for the majority of players who go for it.


However, this isn't just an SSF suggestion.
One of the camps I'm seeing on this is:
"Why is RF a level 16 gem if you can't reasonably use it at 16 or even early levels without specific gear? Even later levels require specific gear investment almost all the time."

While another camp's views might be summarized as:
"RF is intentionally meant to be difficult and risky to first get into because it's also quite rewarding. Not everything needs to be or even should be easy to get into."

I am in the latter camp. The fact that RF is difficult to get into makes it more interesting and is something for players to strive for, not necessarily just be eased into. It's not just something you pick up and slap in your build and I don't believe it should be. If it was adjusted such that it was relatively easy to get into at low levels then that just incentivizes people to slap it in at whichever gem level is comfortable for them to sustain. An example would be a level 90 character who could spend 4% of their regen on it and thus use gem level 10 or whatever works on the chart. That would take away its uniqueness in my eyes. It's something you build around.

Clarity is something that might get referenced as having a nice scale of increasing mana regen but at the cost of increasing mana reservation. And as an aura that only impacts mana regen, it is fine like that. RF should not be like that.

Elemenz, you feel like you're talking to a wall, yes? That's because you kinda are. Your suggestion is something many posters here find antithetical to what they believe RF should be and thus not only do not find value in your proposal, they believe it would be overall harmful to the game and the player experience.

As to why it's a low level gem, it could be about rewarding system mastery. This episode by Extra Credits might give some insight on that: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l_H9JR7ud8E

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Jackalope_Gaming wrote:

Onigoroshi? What does a kind of Japanese alcohol have to do with this?

Dunno, ask Charan.

The gem was just designed a long time ago with another purpose in mind, it was supposed to be a risky short term buff for casters and then we became able to sustain it at some point so it became something else. We got new ways to use the gem, either as a damage dealer or a permabuff, but that requires certain items and investment.

So, to answer one question, the gem is available early on because you can still use it the oldschool way, I suppose that's one way of paying homage to your early ideas and it isn't really doing any harm. To use it on those newfangled (or nowadays rather oldfangled ways) you need specific items at high levels and you also need specific items to use it that way at low levels. Makes sense to me.

So, it's not that his suggestion is some kind of blasphemy, I just don't think the skill would work better that way than it does now. Also, you can't really make a good transition with a linearish curve from a binary state of 'doesn't need items' to 'needs items', when he solves that problem we can talk further.

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Elemenz wrote:

My "new" suggestions start low, allowing any SSF random casual char to start using RF with little res and regen. You level up, the gem levels up and you start taking and dealing more burning dmg in a nice curve that allows you to take breaks in leveling up the gem in case your regen doesn't keep up.

Still anyone claiming this would be a bad idea?
If so, please provide a solid argument.

when you design something, you have to take in account all extremes and edge cases. same goes with balance.

you are allowing SSF toons to deal with RF easily on very early levels

but what about non-SSF toons that can get kikazarou ? leveling RF becomes even more of a breeze for them

you do understand that balance and design will never be centered around SSF, but rather around the uniques that someone can easily get via trading, right ?

not to mention, if you rush regen RF can just about be fully dealt with zero items and 3 decent health potions.

Then lets not mention it's like well i'm tired of always having to use an attack button, to kill things.


Also Al Dhih does work but it follows cooldown rules
The Abyssal Cry casted by Al Dhih abides to the standard cooldown for the ability. Therefore the warcry can only trigger once every 4 seconds or 2 seconds if you have Berserker's War Bringer ascendancy node.

So you can "automate" the casting with it, but you don't void off it's cooldown rules.

So with 3 unique items / about 3 chaos in start of league, normal lab which is a joke, you can make a build that just needs to walk around the screen winning. And it's too hard for you?

It's like saying well darn my tornado shot build sucks cause i can't find a doomfletch
We should double it's damage cause it's a bit hard to get.