[Sept 18] Difficulty and Level Progression

After working my umpteenth play through Act 2, I realized something that I've begun to dread about repeating it... The areas on either side of the encampment begin at the same level and scale up from there. By the time I finish one side, I am ~3 to 5 levels over the content (relative to the level I'd normally play through). Unless I am significantly underleveled (something I find difficult during my second, third, and especially forth play through) I find this to be exceptionally dull, as my progress eventually slows to a halt until I get past Vaal Pyamids. This encourages me to rush Act 1 next difficulty with as little killing as possible, so I am significantly under leveled by the time I return to the content again.

I wonder if there is a way to scale the difficulty through these areas, even if not by directly raising monster level (such as larger packs with more rares as your level increases) so that by the time I've killed/helped Kaitryn (sp?) and move on to the left side of the map, the content is still engaging without encouraging me to disengage from other content (as explained above; in order to maintain low level).

I don't think adding act 3 will change this, as it is caused by act 2's design (I think) and not the overall balance of the game.. But perhaps I'm wrong :)

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Islidox wrote:

With the inclusion of the third act, will the levels in the 3 acts and 3 difficulties scale so that the last level before endgame is lvl 58? Or will it scale to somewhere near lvl 70?

I'm curious about this myself. At a glance it would seem that end game content is going to be pushed ~5 levels back, since we're losing a difficulty (4x difficulties 2x acts = 8x acts worth of content) but gaining an act (3x difficulties 3x acts = 9x acts worth of content).

But it really comes down to how much content is in act 3. If it is a smaller act than the other two (say 2/3 as much) then we will have had as much opportunity to level as we do now ((3x difficulties 2x acts with 3/3 content = 6x acts worth of content) + (3x difficulties 1x act with 2/3 content = 2 acts worth of content) = 8 acts worth of content still)

I do really hope act 3 pushes the beginning of end game to level 70, though, it would make leveling to 80 a viable endeavor, and 90 a challenge / chore.. This would give ample room for up to two additional acts with later expansions (because 3x difficulties and 5x acts seems like the perfect amount of content, after having played D2 LoD for so long) to push all content provided up to the level cap of 100.

Or (a completely tangential and crazy fanboy fantasy) that act 4 and maps would provide enough content that progression through 85/90 to 100 would seem viable, and act 5 could provide an alternative post-endgame leveling progression... Whereupon we become the undisputed lords and masters of Wraeclast, and use the subjugated darkness within to seek revenge upon, and invade Oriath in the ultimate realm-wide PvPvE raid.. :D holy shift.. I'm going to stop now...

The TL,DR version is at the bottom.

Can we have more of those mini-boss unique monster packs (yellow, blue, orange named mobs) with a more varied combat behavior? Maybe, some unique mini-bosses could roll a possible of 3 to 6 skills that it can use as to mimic PvP. And if it dies, you get all the skill gems it was using. Maybe even go so far as to design it in such a way that this NPC's equipment is also rolled appropriately from the loot table, and the equipment it was wearing can drop too!

For example, could you imagine trying to defeat an NPC that is using a Quillrain? That would be a serious PITA, but at least you know you have a 100% chance to get a quillrain if you manage to kill it. Now what if this mini-boss spawned in a level 60 map and you were a level 73 with 5 bars left to level up? Hmm, a choice to be had! What if the mini-boss spawned without the explosive arrow skill-gem or lightning-arrow gem? What if it was only using poison arrow? Would you still risk it? What if this mini-boss spawned in the Cruel difficulty mode? Yay, a free quillrain!?

Another example, you come across a mini-boss that sets down dual-totems casting ice nova. Ouch, do you have a cannot be frozen perk?

I think this would also open up a bunch of weird mini-boss fights the player could encounter. There could also be some strange uniques that may be added into the game to make some strange RNG encounters possible.

Some more examples: I have never seen a mini-boss trap me using wall of ice.

I have never seen a mini-boss try to run away from me to regen using phase run, lightning warp, leap slam, twirling blades, and etc.

I have never seen a mini-boss lay traps all over the place, and then only to run away from me!

How about a mini-boss that messes around with lightning warp as it runs around with a haste-aura but only uses a bow with frenzy? Could you kill it? Sound tough, oh but wait... look at the bow it rolled, you managed to kill. No wonder it was possible, because the mini-boss rolled a 50 DPS bow :D

And, it would be fun if there could be some common pre-defined monster packs that roam the map. Like patrols. Act 2's bandit henchmen would make for a great example. It would be fitting.

This suggestion might remind you of the boss fight against Oak and say no way, but these mini-bosses would have to roll stats similar to what players can achieve, and then some extra... because AI behaviour can be easily exploited.


TL;DR:

There needs to be more pre-programmed AI behaviour that allows enemy NPC's to use a combination of skills to make PvE more engaging. Any loot this enemy NPC has rolled will also drop upon being defeated.

Hello there, I fly over the thread, but I wish to add my fealing.

Just to answer Zeto about the difficulty possibilities.

1. fixed difficulties based on an average player
2. scaled difficulties, forced (normal, nightmare) or choice (slider)
3. Algorithmic difficulty, analyzes your character and sets the difficulty


1 and 2 mixed are almost choosed by lot of games, and it's good.

3. despite it's hard to code, it's not what most people want.

The interest of this kind of game is to pass from a total rookie to a demigod, if the game scale with us... it could be boring. Like Bethesda's Oblivion, crossing arch demons instead of rats in the wild is quite more challenging, but it's boring to travel at foot between town if it takes 3 ingame days of fighting...



The bigger challenge is not to make a game hard or easy, but to teach the gamer how the game scale and how he can adapt himself.

Example, in Diablo 2, even at the start, the game is hard for a newcommer, ennemy can wipe you in 3 or 4 shots, no health regen and potions are rare, but after equiping a bit, we can see things are easier.

Sometimes, a Boss can give a challenge, but it's rarely realy a wall (at least in "normal" mode)

The bigger problem is when the overall game is too easy compared to this boss.

Example, The chapter 1 boss here, the Siren.
You can cross all the chapter without a problem, killing anything in 1 ou 2 shots, but you can be chain lock freeze or killed in 3s because your character is not realy at level.
It could be ok, if the game after that continue to be realy hard, the boss was just a gear check, if we pass it and continue to take hard time, we understand it's not the way we have to go, we need to improve our stuff.

But now only the boss is difficult, after that, the game is "normal" as before, and then, it's not realy interesting, giving a frustating boss without anything to understand aside "he is miss-ballanced"

What now if in the last 2 levels before the boss we start to cross some cold sirens, with same spells (but lot weaker) starting to teach us what is the feeling to be freezed to death, or ice stun... maybe now, we can get some resist cold stuff, and after that before the boss we can handle it a little easier.


The talent in D2 was to make visible the learning curve in the game, showing the player that upping this or that can make his life better.



The problem is, nowadays, making a game like D2 is very difficult, gamers don't like hard games, at least at the begining, and if you don't show them the right way to play... it's even more harder. See how Diablo 3 is, easy from start to hell and a wall in the last difficulty just for hardcore gamers, it's not realy interesting, IMO.


I'm convinced that if you add before the boss some ennemies starting to understand how a boss or a set of ennemies work, it could be less frustrating for gamers.


And for a more experimented player, with a better gear/template, if the boss is simple it's maybe because he is good.
And I think it's normal that a good player with a good equipement travel safier in the world.
the last levels in the last difficulty mode only should give challenge for this kind of players.