is there any point to try building around CoC nowadays?

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raics wrote:

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SaiyanZ wrote:

I had a fully decked out CoC character which I was leveling in Standard when the nerf came. I played it for 2 minutes after the 2.4 nerf from 50ms cooldown to 500ms cooldown before selling the gear and respeccing. It was that bad.

I made one before the patch just for that purpose, old CoC builds are ass indeed if you just plug them into 2.4 environment. You can get something workable if you go about it a bit differently but yeah, the payoff isn't nearly good enough to bother.

between 50 and 500, a 200 or 250ms cd would open more things without reintroducing retarded cyclone / barrage procs

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SaiyanZ wrote:

I did change the setup slightly to accommodate the nerf. Changed from using 4 spells to 1 spell (Bladeflall because it had best coverage and range and scaling from the physical spells) and used damage supports for the spell.

Kept my 16 projectile barrage so that it was overkill on the procs. i.e. was almost always proccing at around the 500ms cooldown. Already was one-shotting things anyway so respeccing a bit on the tree wouldn't have made a difference.

Result was that the proc rate was too slow. A lot of the time mobs would manage to reach me before the proc went off so had to play a bit more slowly from a safe distance. With just one spell going off, the coverage was also quite bad so I had to wait a bit longer to clear a pack.

I think you should have kept multiple spells. Which skill were you using to trigger? Ideally it would be something with a lot of separate proc events, like Kinetic Blast. One spell is the sweet spot for spellblade setup.

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is there any point to try building around CoC nowadays?

FUN, for example?

In Legacy league Ive made one after long time, and was really satisfied with it. It is cyclone with Sire of Shards and Eye of innocence.. I was using only one spell in a link.. You can have a look (YT), I call it Fake Ngamahu :)

First of all: Ludvator you glorious asshole that video was hilarious. I just cannot tolerate using Cyclone, it makes my bladder twitch uncontrollably, but hell if that's not a great sales piece for CoC Magmorb. I see four chains per cast, methinks...you running Deadeye on that mofo? Throw me a build link, I want to see the evil madness behind this.

Second of all: A thought has occurred to me that helps put this thread in perspective. People keep saying "how is CoC any better than self/hard-casting now?!" It reminds me of a time, back in the Bad Old Days of pre-nerf CoC, when people would ask "How is self/hard-casting possibly able to keep up with CoC?!"

There should be room in the game for both methods to work. Hardcasting should be the typical method, with other trigger options coming into and out of play when their specific advantages turn out to work great with a particular combination. CoC should not be the default casting method. It should be a cool option for funky trick builds like CoC Sire of Shards Ballpen Mayhem.

Keeping this in mind, sticking with the right mindset for CoC - not "how can I compete with self-cast builds or the Bad Old Days of Cast-The-World On Crit?", but "how can I make the mechanics that exist now work for me instead of against me?" will help with coming up with interesting build ideas that can stand up to T13 Sulfur Waste maps.

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Second of all: A thought has occurred to me that helps put this thread in perspective. People keep saying "how is CoC any better than self/hard-casting now?!"

thats the thing, yeah. the reason is cyclone. without cyclone, there would be no point in using CoC to release the bouncing orbs. "cast while moving, with stun immunity" is the key..

Im glad you like my build :)

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Ludvator wrote:

thats the thing, yeah. the reason is cyclone. without cyclone, there would be no point in using CoC to release the bouncing orbs. "cast while moving, with stun immunity" is the key..

Exactly. I was trying to figure out how/why to do that build without Cyclone (because Cyclone gives me ass cancer) and just couldn't make it work even in theory. Cyclone's advantages for that particular style of build are too numerous; it's the reason the build works in the first place. That's the sort of analysis and thought people need to put into their builds. WHY are you doing what you're trying to do? Why should it work? How can you make it work?

This is how people build meta builds in the first place, kiddos!

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Ludvator wrote:

Im glad you like my build :)

I do! That's the sort of effective creativity I love this game for letting me practice. Always a pleasure to watch someone completely ninety degrees of DER METTUH and make it kick ass anyways. Nice work, man.