is there any point to try building around CoC nowadays?

"

1453R wrote:

Suppose the real kicker for CoC would be to use some sort of gnarly single-target attack that can deal with bosses pretty easily, linked up with an AoE clearing spell that fires off the ST move, for a sort of Spellsword approach.

Yeah, that seems like a good way to play it nowadays, I'd try Oro with Lacerate for decent single target and probably Magma Orb on CoC, it has very good damage and you can get extra projectiles through jewels so no need to waste a support. If you can stand those awful flashes from magma orb, that is, my eyes start watering after half an hour.

"

poepoe091 wrote:

Aside from that CoC offers no benefit at all over self casting that I know of.

Well, if you go the spellblade route you can get life/mana leech without sacrificing a curse or support slot, not a huge advantage but it's something.

Well, there's also the "I want to make this work gad dang it!" benefit. If your objective is "Play a CoC build", then not using CoC is not in fact a benefit.

personally I'd go with the Cospri's Malice notion from my last post, which is admittedly more of a pseudo-CoC, but it fits the same sort of idea and seems like it'd be a righteous blast to play. Oro's Lacerate/Magmorb sounds workable as well.

i have an operating CoC build which is very fun and clears very well. single target is an issue of course.

anyway its ground slam and stacking physical spells. bladefall EK and glacial cascade. i actually run it as a raider too and it plays quite nicely.

of course you're probably better off just self-casting either of those spells or blade vortex and just racking up the DMG count by stacking the % phys as extra ****

If you want CoC build that works the way it did back in the day, won't happen.
If you want one that just works and like most other builds has got it's strengths and weaknesses, then yeah, it's worth it, unless you are expecting to one-shot everything including the very end-game with little to no real investment, you can even level as CoC.

"

Daiena wrote:

If you want CoC build that works the way it did back in the day, won't happen.
If you want one that just works and like most other builds has got it's strengths and weaknesses, then yeah, it's worth it, unless you are expecting to one-shot everything including the very end-game with little to no real investment, you can even level as CoC.

dont missunderstand : i try it with a lot of invest :)

last try : elementalist hegemony era Frostblades CoC arctic breath

next : cospri cyclone discharge...

i dont want the old fucked way, but something in between..

i do want the old fucked way. it was frickin hilarious and super fun. they could have kept it that way but just toned damage down or something, if they felt it was too powerful.

my quill rain barrage setup was HEE-LAIR-EE-OUS. stacked all the cold spells that used proj speed. oh man it was nuts.

"

xMustard wrote:

i do want the old fucked way. it was frickin hilarious and super fun. they could have kept it that way but just toned damage down or something, if they felt it was too powerful.

my quill rain barrage setup was HEE-LAIR-EE-OUS. stacked all the cold spells that used proj speed. oh man it was nuts.

How do you 'tone down damage' sufficiently to make triggering seventy-three spells a second not bullshit?

CWDT spell-spam Berserkers/Chieftains have to do it with something like level 5 spells, put CWDT set-ups in ALL their links, and find some weird bizarre way of reliably TD-ing to trigger their CW condition...and they STILL generate significantly less spells per second than the old CoC horsefuckery builds.

Old bullshit CoC needed very badly to die. The fact that new CoC is a very nichey sort of thing that nobody's gotten a good grip on yet sucks, but half of why folks haven't gotten a good grip on it is because they're all pining for old-style melt-the-servers CoC builds.

Anyways. I'd say maybe look into the Oro's Lacerate/Magmorb set-up, or similar elemental boss melee/clearing spell stuff. That way you're basically running the old boss/clear two-skill setups on one button instead of two. Trying to stack two skills that basically do the same job (Ice Crash/Nova, for example) doesn't do you much good; I imagine the DPS would be better with just two regular supports instead of CoC > Nova or the like.

Maybe I'm wrong, though. CoC is itself a pretty hefty 'More' for its given spell, so acts as a regular support for a spell. A 6L CoC set-up could conceivably do the same DPS as a 4-link melee and a 5-link spell going off at the same time, if with serious cast time penalties for the spell, if the link set is really carefully built. Best would be two skills that compound with each other; that's one of the reasons I like the idea of Viper Strike acting as a carrier for a physical spell, since VS w/Thresholds is a pretty good way of triggering Unholy Might and bolstering both your VS damage and your Knives/Blades damage. Problem is no other real worthwhile supports, which blows...ugh.

But yes. To Gehenna with the old screen-melting server-dissolving game-killing CoC. Hilarious it might've been, but it was otherwise Bad For Game. We're all better off without it.

"

1453R wrote:

Best would be two skills that compound with each other; that's one of the reasons I like the idea of Viper Strike acting as a carrier for a physical spell, since VS w/Thresholds is a pretty good way of triggering Unholy Might and bolstering both your VS damage and your Knives/Blades damage. Problem is no other real worthwhile supports, which blows...ugh.

Yup, I'm a big fan of CoMK because you have to play that on spellblade unless you're going wormblaster (which was kinda dumb really and they killed CoMK because of it, so good riddance to that too). If it ever comes back, though, it will still have the same problems as before and that's a notable lack of good attack/spell supports.

Gotta say I personally like the current CoC more than before, though I will admit they overnerfed it somewhat. I remember listing two ways to do it in some thread before the patch and they did both, hilarious :)

"

raics wrote:

"

1453R wrote:

Best would be two skills that compound with each other; that's one of the reasons I like the idea of Viper Strike acting as a carrier for a physical spell, since VS w/Thresholds is a pretty good way of triggering Unholy Might and bolstering both your VS damage and your Knives/Blades damage. Problem is no other real worthwhile supports, which blows...ugh.

Yup, I'm a big fan of CoMK because you have to play that on spellblade unless you're going wormblaster (which was kinda dumb really and they killed CoMK because of it, so good riddance to that too). If it ever comes back, though, it will still have the same problems as before and that's a notable lack of good attack/spell supports.

Gotta say I personally like the current CoC more than before, though I will admit they overnerfed it somewhat. I remember listing two ways to do it in some thread before the patch and they did both, hilarious :)

I'd honestly be okay with CoC being nudged up to match the ~.3s cast time of a leveled Cast While Channeling gem, or at least get closer. Crits are less reliable than Hold Down Button for channeling; sure the big 'More' modifier on CoC is supposed to make the gem more attractive for delivering bigger stronger spells with occasional crits, i.e. you no longer require a 95% crit build to run CoC...but this design has clearly failed since nobody uses it.

Maybe time to try a new design, intermediate between BUllshit Spamalanche and Once-A-Year Big Spell?

"

SaiyanZ wrote:

I had a fully decked out CoC character which I was leveling in Standard when the nerf came. I played it for 2 minutes after the 2.4 nerf from 50ms cooldown to 500ms cooldown before selling the gear and respeccing. It was that bad.

I made one before the patch just for that purpose, old CoC builds are ass indeed if you just plug them into 2.4 environment. You can get something workable if you go about it a bit differently but yeah, the payoff isn't nearly good enough to bother.