What MonstaMunch is pointing at, Darkfyre, is the reason I used certain terminology in my first post.
Omnipotent
Omniscient
Omnipresent
Ok, omnipresent can take a hike for this one actually, but they're usually bundled together, so I went ahead and listed it. You cannot have God be those words and also maintain the narrative you've given here.
Well, since it's God Word and not mine, if you have a problem with that "narrative" then I suggest you take it up with Him. Why tell me God cannot be what and who He is? He's the one who is going against your statement by existing as He does. Tell Him. I'm sure He'll understand your point of view and that He'll agree that He cannot exist the way He does.
...
too much?
Sorry, but you may as well be looking at a tree with me and be saying to me "You can't have leaves like those on that tree!"
Sorry, but you may as well be looking at a tree with me and be saying to me "You can't have leaves like those on that tree!"
If you told us a story of how you have a friend with a pine tree in his back yard sporting birch leaves, I would indeed say "You can't have leaves like those on that tree!"
Now, if this wooden freak of nature could be properly demonstrated to be real things might be different. But all we have is a story wich, when compared to both nature and global human history, doesn't check out at all.
You won't get no glory on that side of the hole.
Last edited by Upandatem on Apr 19, 2017, 5:49:56 PM
Sorry, but you may as well be looking at a tree with me and be saying to me "You can't have leaves like those on that tree!"
If you told us a story of how you have a friend with a pine tree in his back yard sporting birch leaves, I would indeed say "You can't have leaves like those on that tree!"
Now, if this wooden freak of nature could be properly demonstrated to be real things might be different. But all we have is a story wich, when compered to both nature and global human history, doesn't check out at all.
it is your right to choose, of course
but at least be aware of the consequences of that choice, and make an informed decision:
"
So, he who rejects this is not rejecting man but the God who gives His Holy Spirit to you.
- 1 Thessalonians 4:8
"
There is a way that seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death
- Proverbs 16:25
"
Then Paul and Barnabas waxed bold, and said, It was necessary that the word of God should first have been spoken to you: but seeing ye put it from you, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life, lo, we turn to the Gentiles.
- Acts 13:46
"
To whom shall I speak and give warning That they may hear? Behold, their ears are closed And they cannot listen Behold, the word of the LORD has become a reproach to them; They have no delight in it.
- Jeremiah 6:10
Last edited by Darkfyre on Apr 19, 2017, 5:53:08 PM
If there was only one theology out there then you'd either be an atheist or you wouldn't. As it is, there are many theologies, and most of them are mutually exclusive which means if you are a theist with regards to one, then you will be an atheist with regards to the others.
You're so wrong about the terminology.
Theist believes there's at least one god while atheist doesn't (or in other words atheist believes there are no gods). Neither of these is defined in regard to any specific deity; atheism as a stance is already all-inclusive (zero gods, no exceptions) while religion defines to which god theist believes (theist may also have no religion as it doesn't require him to know which god exists, it's only concerned about the concept of god).
Wikipedia, while not always 100% accurate, has basics such as these well served:
"
Atheism is, in the broadest sense, the absence of belief in the existence of deities. Less broadly, atheism is the rejection of belief that any deities exist. In an even narrower sense, atheism is specifically the position that there are no deities. Atheism is contrasted with theism, which, in its most general form, is the belief that at least one deity exists.
Same is true for agnosticism; it only takes a stance whether it's rationally possible to choose between theism and atheism. In my opinion it's a flawed idea because beliefs are not rational by definition, we can't choose to believe (or disbelieve) on something at will.
Oh, and to Darkfyre. Could you please explain why I should worship a being that has created billions of people only to send them to everlasting torment in a lake of fire? Omniscient creator is responsible for all the choices his creations do so each and every man god sent to hell never had any chance to avoid that fate. If I believed in your god I'd be at war with him.
Last edited by kuukkeli on Apr 19, 2017, 6:03:39 PM
Well, since it's God Word and not mine, if you have a problem with that "narrative" then I suggest you take it up with Him. Why tell me God cannot be what and who He is? He's the one who is going against your statement by existing as He does. Tell Him. I'm sure He'll understand your point of view and that He'll agree that He cannot exist the way He does.
...
too much?
Sorry, but you may as well be looking at a tree with me and be saying to me "You can't have leaves like those on that tree!"
Oh that simply won't do. You've been in this thread for a bit now giving us your interpretation of the scripture. You can't cop out now and say 'take it up with God'. You had answers before :/
Well, since it's God Word and not mine, if you have a problem with that "narrative" then I suggest you take it up with Him. Why tell me God cannot be what and who He is? He's the one who is going against your statement by existing as He does. Tell Him. I'm sure He'll understand your point of view and that He'll agree that He cannot exist the way He does.
...
too much?
Sorry, but you may as well be looking at a tree with me and be saying to me "You can't have leaves like those on that tree!"
Oh that simply won't do. You've been in this thread for a bit now giving us your interpretation of the scripture. You can't cop out now and say 'take it up with God'. You had answers before :/
but at least be aware of the consequences of that choice, and make an informed decision:
"
So, he who rejects this is not rejecting man but the God who gives His Holy Spirit to you.
- 1 Thessalonians 4:8
"
There is a way that seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death
- Proverbs 16:25
"
Then Paul and Barnabas waxed bold, and said, It was necessary that the word of God should first have been spoken to you: but seeing ye put it from you, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life, lo, we turn to the Gentiles.
- Acts 13:46
"
To whom shall I speak and give warning That they may hear? Behold, their ears are closed And they cannot listen Behold, the word of the LORD has become a reproach to them; They have no delight in it.
- Jeremiah 6:10
See, that doesn't mean *anything*. They're stories. You might as well have listed 4 spell incantations from Harry Potter and said "You'll be real sorry if you don't respect the wizards!"
Sorry, but you may as well be looking at a tree with me and be saying to me "You can't have leaves like those on that tree!"
If you told us a story of how you have a friend with a pine tree in his back yard sporting birch leaves, I would indeed say "You can't have leaves like those on that tree!"
Now, if this wooden freak of nature could be properly demonstrated to be real things might be different. But all we have is a story wich, when compered to both nature and global human history, doesn't check out at all.
it is your right to choose, of course
but at least be aware of the consequences of that choice, and make an informed decision:
"
So, he who rejects this is not rejecting man but the God who gives His Holy Spirit to you.
- 1 Thessalonians 4:8
"
There is a way that seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death
- Proverbs 16:25
"
Then Paul and Barnabas waxed bold, and said, It was necessary that the word of God should first have been spoken to you: but seeing ye put it from you, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life, lo, we turn to the Gentiles.
- Acts 13:46
"
To whom shall I speak and give warning That they may hear? Behold, their ears are closed And they cannot listen Behold, the word of the LORD has become a reproach to them; They have no delight in it.
- Jeremiah 6:10
So the response to there being a difference between what I can see and touch with my own eyes and hands, and believing something just based on a story someone tells me... is to refer back to the contents of said story? That kind of circular logic is what scares me about people who are religious. Not only is there a desire to believe something that is so intangible, but the willful delusion of oneself... that really makes me worry about people. That there are so many in this day and age that are willing to accept these explanations for things they cannot understand, based only on fables written by primitive cultures thousands of years ago... It just does not add up.
So the response to there being a difference between what I can see and touch with my own eyes and hands, and believing something just based on a story someone tells me... is to refer back to the contents of said story? That kind of circular logic is what scares me about people who are religious. Not only is there a desire to believe something that is so intangible, but the willful delusion of oneself... that really makes me worry about people. That there are so many in this day and age that are willing to accept these explanations for things they cannot understand, based only on fables written by primitive cultures thousands of years ago... It just does not add up.
Hey, if you're looking to me to prove to you that God exists, then sorry but you're going to be disappointed. Not my job. My job is simply to provide you with the information, with what I know and with what will best influence you to investigate the matter for yourself. Remember free will? In the end you make the final decision. As Christians it's our job to ensure that you have all the information you need to make an informed one, and if possible to help influence you to make the right one. Whether you accept that, or what you do with that information is up to you. Only God can work in the heart of a person to affect true change.
Last edited by Darkfyre on Apr 20, 2017, 12:16:55 PM
Only God can work in the heart of a person to affect true change.
And he cares so much about this work that he showed himself... only to illiterate tribes in the middle east in a time when they had no idea at all of how anything worked. Screw the natives of the american continents and oceania, screw most of africa, asia and europe. Screw everyone who lived for all the hundreds of thousands of years before his Big Reveal.
The allmighty, omnipresent grand architect of Everything cares so much but he couldn't be buggered to reveal himself outside of a specific region, hundreds of thousands of years after humankinds arrival?
