Donald Trump and US politics

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MrSmiley21 wrote:

There is an inherent "Russophobia" still present among Americans, and even Europeans, just due to the history of adversarial relationships.

I can understand the "Russiophobia", especially among some European countries (and yeah, especially the little Baltic ones). Tho, it should be actually called Commie-phobia. (I have the condition too :P)

The Soviet Union was an ideological enemy of the western world, therefore the antagonizing state between the two blocks was completely understandable. But those times are over. Russia is not an ideological enemy. In the long term, we europeans stand to loose the most, from the power games US is doing on our soil. EU politicians are ofc. equally culpable, for going along with it.

@Bars
Yeah, Yeltsin was a 'nice guy' cause he was a drunkard. But Putin can't be bought just with a bottle of vodka.

Most Russians I've spoken to seem like logical, down to Earth people. More so than most Americans. Liberalism hasn't completely rotted their brains out.

Russia is no longer a communist country. But in fact it´s an authoritarian "democracy"( a term often used here is "Demokratur", a mixture of "Demokratie" and "Diktatur"(dictatorship). Any opposition was massively suppressed, some of them were killed without any proof of connections to Putin, of course.

Also there´s a massive control over the press and state propaganda on TV. It´s not comparable to liberal(seems to be a bad word for some, what I mean here is: freedom of speech and freedom of the press + checks and balances in the political system) democracies like the U.S. and in Europe. So far.

It's not my responsibility to dictate to them how to run their country. Regardless, it's not as bad as they had it under the USSR.

Also I'm cynical as hell about Liberal's movies when they criticize some foreign country for not having complete freedoms, and complete freedom of press when they themselves push policies that are against free speech. Like calling "insert speech here" hate speech if they don't like it and make it criminal. That's more in line with what the USSR and the Nazis did.

There are some countries in Europe where I'd be arrested for sharing certain opinions. But I'm not there, and am never going to be there, so they can do whatever they want. If someone wants to bring that to the USA, I will viciously oppose them. If someone ever wants to lock me up for "Hate speech", I'll make sure to give them a far better reason to arrest me. I have nothing but complete defiance for their agenda, with every single fiber of my being.

If Humans weren't such shady, manipulative [Removed by Support], then maybe I wouldn't be so cynical. Like, just tell me what you really think instead of trying to grab "Freedom and Democracy" and use it as a fucking shield to mask your true positions that have nothing to do with "Freedom and Democracy". Because anyone who's someone perceptive can see right through that facade anyway.

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Schmodderhengst wrote:

Russia is no longer a communist country. But in fact it´s an authoritarian "democracy" ...

The democratic and free West has never shied away from collaborating with dictatorships, some much worse than Putin's "strongman democracy". The US and EU are selling $$ billions of weapons to Saudi Arabia, a medieval theocracy, which is using those weapons to bomb weddings & funerals in the neigboring Yemen. The oh so humanitarian "international community" doesn't seem to be giving a fuck in this case.

Putin being a strongman in his country doesn't mean anything yet. In fact all the wars that RU has been involved in the last 10 years, were defensive in nature. A reaction to a 3rd party instigated conflict.

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MrSmiley21 wrote:

It's not my responsibility to dictate to them how to run their country. Regardless, it's not as bad as they had it under the USSR.

Also I'm cynical as hell about Liberal's movies when they criticize some foreign country for not having complete freedoms, and complete freedom of press when they themselves push policies that are against free speech. Like calling "insert speech here" hate speech if they don't like it and make it criminal. That's more in line with what the USSR and the Nazis did.

There are some countries in Europe where I'd be arrested for sharing certain opinions. But I'm not there, and am never going to be there, so they can do whatever they want. If someone wants to bring that to the USA, I will viciously oppose them. If someone ever wants to lock me up for "Hate speech", I'll make sure to give them a far better reason to arrest me. I have nothing but complete defiance for their agenda, with every single fiber of my being.

Hate speech is speech which attacks a person or group on the basis of attributes such as gender, ethnic origin, religion, race, disability, or sexual orientation. (Wikipedia)

And you think it´s a good idea to allow that. Ok.

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Schmodderhengst wrote:

And you think it´s a good idea to allow that. Ok.

Yeah, that's an important staple to have in place for any society that considers itself to be "free". You have the right to verbally criticize anyone for any reason. Without that, there is no freedom of speech.

I would probably be arrested in Germany for saying something in public about Muslims that's not "Politically correct".

But one thing I'm curious about, is what if some Muslim from Pakistan makes a slander against ethnic Germans, are they subject to the same "hate speech" laws? Because here in the USA, the liberals only want to extend "Hate speech" laws to "protected groups". If one group is granted more protections under the law than another, for any reason, that's systemic discrimination. Anyone pushing this while using "Freedom and Democracy" as a shield can kiss my ass!

Something like this will never fly in the USA, and I believe (hope) anyone who seeks to impose it would meet fiercely violent resistance.

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morbo wrote:

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Schmodderhengst wrote:

Russia is no longer a communist country. But in fact it´s an authoritarian "democracy" ...

The democratic and free West has never shied away from collaborating with dictatorships, some much worse than Putin's "strongman democracy". The US and EU are selling $$ billions of weapons to Saudi Arabia, a medieval theocracy, which is using those weapons to bomb weddings & funerals in the neigboring Yemen. The oh so humanitarian "international community" doesn't seem to be giving a fuck in this case.

Absolutely correct. We should not deliver weapons to them or other suppressive regimes. Germany has delivered lots of weapons to Saudi Arabia, I´m not proud of it, but not responsible for it.
I´m voting for parties that want to end this. I can do that because the opposition here is not being killed, imprisoned or silenced. Not really possible in Russia for example.

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Schmodderhengst wrote:

And you think it´s a good idea to allow that. Ok.

Yeah, in a healthy society it is a very good idea to have complete freedom of speech. Anyone insitgating hate speech toward someone else, will be automatically ostracized by the society and suffer the consequences (economic consequences, social, etc..). You don't need the government to police your thoughts and communication.

I suppose that you are German? Your gov is basically saying to you that you arent civilized or cultured enough, to be trusted with free speech. Therefore the gov apparatus has to suppress your speech and thoughts with censorship, else you might turn Nazi overnight. Which is ridiculous.

It is just an authoritarian mechanism to police what can you read or listen. And it is also useful to supress non-politically correct opinions, which might not be hate-speech, but the gov apparatus can label them as such. Oh, and makes it more difficult to track hate groups, cause they will have to use alternate & private means of communication anyway.

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MrSmiley21 wrote:

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Schmodderhengst wrote:

And you think it´s a good idea to allow that. Ok.

Yeah, that's an important staple to have in place for any society that considers itself to be "free". You have the right to verbally criticize anyone for any reason. Without that, there is no freedom of speech.

I would probably be arrested in Germany for saying something in public about Muslims that's not "Politically correct".

But one thing I'm curious about, is what if some Muslim from Pakistan makes a slander against ethnic Germans, are they subject to the same "hate speech" laws? Because here in the USA, the liberals only want to extend "Hate speech" laws to "protected groups". If one group is granted more protections under the law than another, for any reason, that's systemic discrimination. Anyone pushing this while using "Freedom and Democracy" as a shield can kiss my ass!

Something like this will never fly in the USA, and I believe (hope) anyone who seeks to impose it would meet fiercely violent resistance.

"[...]The law requires that said speech be "qualified for disturbing public peace" either by inciting "hatred against parts of the populace" or calling for "acts of violence or despotism against them", or by attacking "the human dignity of others by reviling, maliciously making contemptible or slandering parts of the populace"."

So, a judge would have to decide about that. No specific groups.

It might be interesting for you that the German police was criticized because they have not arrested a group of Palestinians who showed a Hitler salute at an anti Israel demonstration.

That was a double standard(by the police, not by the law), that´s why it was being criticized, they should have been arrested.

@morbo: yes, I am German