Donald Trump and US politics

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ChanBalam wrote:

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deathflower wrote:

Kinda my point. But we usually disagree on what we define as harmful and what we need to or does not need to regulate. Democrats and Republicans are just pole apart on various issues. I think it is a example of prisoner's dilemma, cooperating might appear to be in their best interests, but both sides doesn't trust each other and ended up picking the worst decision possible. Kinda how rational individuals can make bad choices.

I agree. The extreme polarization of our politics is a bad thing and gets in the way of thoughtful compromise. As long as the goals are focused on extreme results, we will fail.

The person you're quoting explicitly said they want America to hurry up and become a failed state. I don't think you two are agreeing on what compromise should lead to.

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But yes, the polarization is horrid.

Recently, you were either antifa or a neo-nazi, no inbetweens. You can't talk about free speech without being a nazi, and you can't talk about disliking nazis without being a violent rioter.

Dems and Reps both share a common interest in an ever-growing state and more power accrued. They'll take one side and let the other take the other side, just as long as power keeps growing.

The best example of this is Congressional votes. Once the Reps (or whoever has control of the Congress) gets their votes together to push forward new legislature, every Dem (or whoever doesn't have control) votes against it without even looking at it.

This is easy ammunition for them later -- it cost them nothing to obtain. They could agree with the legislature and still vote No just to say they voted No, it wouldn't have mattered if they voted Yes instead. If something goes wrong, they get to point to their No vote and say, "shoulda voted for me!"

I see absolutely no way to resolve this.

More food for thought.

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pneuma wrote:

The person you're quoting explicitly said they want America to hurry up and become a failed state. I don't think you two are agreeing on what compromise should lead to.

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But yes, the polarization is horrid.

Recently, you were either antifa or a neo-nazi, no inbetweens. You can't talk about free speech without being a nazi, and you can't talk about disliking nazis without being a violent rioter.

Dems and Reps both share a common interest in an ever-growing state and more power accrued. They'll take one side and let the other take the other side, just as long as power keeps growing.

The best example of this is Congressional votes. Once the Reps (or whoever has control of the Congress) gets their votes together to push forward new legislature, every Dem (or whoever doesn't have control) votes against it without even looking at it.

This is easy ammunition for them later -- it cost them nothing to obtain. They could agree with the legislature and still vote No just to say they voted No, it wouldn't have mattered if they voted Yes instead. If something goes wrong, they get to point to their No vote and say, "shoulda voted for me!"

I see absolutely no way to resolve this.

More food for thought.

The solution is less extremism in our political culture. Less hate radio would be a start. One problem though is that hate radio and extremism on TV feeds upon itself to create improved rating and more financial success. Hate entertainment is a growing business. I think the solution will be leaders who preach getting things done through compromise. Their challenge will be fighting the extremes who don't want anything accomplished and who live for political warfare. A workable compromise on immigration just takes a hot button off the table. The same goes for abortion, tax reform, healthcare, etc. Extremist goals are to fuel discord not find solutions.

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pneuma wrote:

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ChanBalam wrote:

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deathflower wrote:

Kinda my point. But we usually disagree on what we define as harmful and what we need to or does not need to regulate. Democrats and Republicans are just pole apart on various issues. I think it is a example of prisoner's dilemma, cooperating might appear to be in their best interests, but both sides doesn't trust each other and ended up picking the worst decision possible. Kinda how rational individuals can make bad choices.

I agree. The extreme polarization of our politics is a bad thing and gets in the way of thoughtful compromise. As long as the goals are focused on extreme results, we will fail.

The person you're quoting explicitly said they want America to hurry up and become a failed state. I don't think you two are agreeing on what compromise should lead to.

---

But yes, the polarization is horrid.

Recently, you were either antifa or a neo-nazi, no inbetweens. You can't talk about free speech without being a nazi, and you can't talk about disliking nazis without being a violent rioter.

Dems and Reps both share a common interest in an ever-growing state and more power accrued. They'll take one side and let the other take the other side, just as long as power keeps growing.

The best example of this is Congressional votes. Once the Reps (or whoever has control of the Congress) gets their votes together to push forward new legislature, every Dem (or whoever doesn't have control) votes against it without even looking at it.

This is easy ammunition for them later -- it cost them nothing to obtain. They could agree with the legislature and still vote No just to say they voted No, it wouldn't have mattered if they voted Yes instead. If something goes wrong, they get to point to their No vote and say, "shoulda voted for me!"

I see absolutely no way to resolve this.

More food for thought.

so very true

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pneuma wrote:

The person you're quoting explicitly said they want America to hurry up and become a failed state. I don't think you two are agreeing on what compromise should lead to.

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I said Slow and uneventful drama are rather boring. There is quick and exciting way and slow and tedious way. What I want have little implications on what will happen, it is probably what most Americans does that matter.

So If I want to say America will blow up, sink to bottom of the ocean or buried under a mountain of poop I will gladly do so. Not like having a wish list ever work. Your guilt tripping doesn't work on me. Opinions of the majority of people don't matter. And I care little what other think of me.

funny stuff xDDD

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vNFzrqCnbGM

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diablofdb wrote:

funny stuff xDDD

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vNFzrqCnbGM

Yeah I remember when that story came out lol

So now other people get to tell us what to find attractive?

Am I allowed to be mad because women are not into overfed long haired leaping Gnomes?

people like what they like

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ChanBalam wrote:

Can you provide some examples of industries where the leading companies volunteered, without threat of Government regulation or lawsuits, to improve working conditions, raise worker pay, stop polluting, stop cheating customers, or otherwise reduce profits for the greater good of their communities? Here are some industries to consider:

Mining
Manufacturing
Automotive
Retail
Financial services
Construction
Agriculture
Banking
Petrochemical
Aerospace
Technology
Transportation

ITT ChanBalam unironically asks me to prove businesses give raises and/or contribute to charities without being forced by government. ChanBalam also claims to be a decades-long veteran of corporate leadership... really makes you think.

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ChanBalam wrote:

People* are not likely to change much. Government can change**

* who disagree with me
** them

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diablofdb wrote:

the Nazis were left wings btw.

False. Yes, I've seen the Stephen Crowder argument, it's bullshit. The right desires government intervention in favor of the ethnic majority and tradition; the left seeks intervention against. Nonintervention is actually centrist, perceived as right only because our Overton Window is all kinds of fucked up. The far right (few that there are) loves big government to keep whites in power.

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I don't think stifling elements within the media is the solution to extremism, especially Congressional partisanship. You might think it would be a better world if everyone watched C-SPAN but you don't watch C-SPAN because C-SPAN is fucking boring. Commentators add bias and, yes, hate entertainment to the news and in so doing inform the public. Yes, they usually misinform simultaneously, but if I go to a CNN viewer they'll tell me the DACA repeal (lul) is unfair to kids (kek), but if I talk to a ESPN viewer they'll ask me "what's DACA?" In a free market of infotainment (meaning the internet, not cable) the commentators who bring information both accurately and interestingly will rise to the top.

President Trump's statement on DACA:

https://theconservativetreehouse.com/2017/09/05/president-trump-releases-statement-on-daca/#more-138250

Pretty straightforward. Put the power of legislation back in the hands of the Legislature, where it belongs. Acknowledge the humanitarian considerations of the issue, but remember the rights of citizens affected, as well. Ultimately, follow policies lawfully put into place, and undo those policies applied in violation of the law. ='[.]'=

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Raycheetah wrote:

Pretty straightforward. Put the power of legislation back in the hands of the Legislature, where it belongs. Acknowledge the humanitarian considerations of the issue, but remember the rights of citizens affected, as well. Ultimately, follow policies lawfully put into place, and undo those policies applied in violation of the law. ='[.]'=

Sounds like literally Hitler to me.

In other news, looks like Texas is getting voter ID laws after all.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/u-appeals-court-says-texas-implement-voter-id-040701076.html

Remember when Democrats were so sure about their illegal voters that they honestly thought Texas might go blue? I guess those days are over.

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Raycheetah wrote:

President Trump's statement on DACA:

https://theconservativetreehouse.com/2017/09/05/president-trump-releases-statement-on-daca/#more-138250

Pretty straightforward. Put the power of legislation back in the hands of the Legislature, where it belongs. Acknowledge the humanitarian considerations of the issue, but remember the rights of citizens affected, as well. Ultimately, follow policies lawfully put into place, and undo those policies applied in violation of the law. ='[.]'=

It is nonsense if you are saying Congress can't legislate rather it is they don't legislate. Trump is saying it is unconstitutional but the Congress is not doing their job. President Trump extended Barack Obama’s amnesty executive order for another six months. That shit is now on Congress table to do something.