Crit vs. Non-crit Builds : Do non-crit builds need a buff?

"

nEVER_BoRN wrote:

"

TreeOfDead wrote:

"

MortalKombat3 wrote:

The problem with RT is that it's simply underpowered. It's quite easy to stack 85% hit rate, so you trade your crits for mere 15% damage... not so cool. Elemental Overload, at least, provides +40% damage, so it's more fair option.

Its much worse, 85 or 90 chance to hit you can get just from dex and no nodes, if you invest just a little bit you can do more, so RT gave even less damage then most players think.

Non crit so underpowered and weak... i dont know wtf GGG doing all this time.

You for real?
300dex and 60% accuracy is like 85 att best on low levels like 84. You need like 2,5-3k accuracy and especialy if you are crit build.
Also you know what hapen to melee crit build that get blinded with shrine or shrauded monsters flickering on top of you in idle of nasty pack of monsters?

OMG so they have to kite and/or spam AoE like crazy. So much difficulty.

You need a couple of rolls of flat Accuracy - swords got it easier than ever right now - and a few increased nodes, and reasonable Dex to get to 90% chance to hit even on end game.

They let Accuracy sources become abundant, it's not so difficult to get those 2.5-3K Accuracy points anymore, or you would have those playing Crit complain all day long they can't hit @#%^.

"

You for real?
300dex and 60% accuracy is like 85 att best on low levels like 84. You need like 2,5-3k accuracy and especialy if you are crit build.
Also you know what hapen to melee crit build that get blinded with shrine or shrauded monsters flickering on top of you in idle of nasty pack of monsters?

Considering that a weapon has to have an Acc roll to be good and it is not too hard to roll Acc on Helmets. While not having access to Dex makes Accuracy really tough getting a bit of Dex and some small combined weapon nodes for Acc is usually enough. My Raider is at 93% with those 300 Dex (of course using a Sword he gets an easy 360 Acc from the implicit). Many people take their Acc on a lvl90+ char which is a totally meaningless stat because there are no enemies that have such a high level.

Before that you have it quite easy to get to 85+ and with a Sword even 90+ is not hard. The thing is if you are using Elemental Spells you get Controlled Destruction and Elemental Overload for not going Crit, if you are using a Physical Attack you get basically nothing for going non crit.

Also how does Blind even matter. Yes it is cool to not get Blinded but not only is Blind really rare and only halfes your chance to hit, which does work twice on crit (so you get about 4 times less crit) but due to how easy it is to cap crit it is pretty meaningless because there is hardly any boss that causes a reliable blind and if you have a smoke screen you basically just wait till he flickers to you walk a few steps and kill him. A shrouded shrine is even less impactful because you just activate the shrine.

The only annoying source of Blind is Damon Tui... but funny thing is that a Blinded Crit Char likely still does more damage than a char using RT, exspecially in 3.0 when Double Dipping or DoTs in general are removed from Melees with the new mechanic.

"

sofocle10000 wrote:

Have you used Kongor on a build that uses a single targeting skill to kill Guardians/Shaper without relying on double dipping?

Mathil has: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n1Qbc4KMV8U
It's ice crash, so no single target skill because Mathil isn't stupid... but when fighting endgame bosses, may as well use glacial hammer instead.

"

Peterlerock wrote:

"

sofocle10000 wrote:

Have you used Kongor on a build that uses a single targeting skill to kill Guardians/Shaper without relying on double dipping?

Mathil has: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n1Qbc4KMV8U
It's ice crash, so no single target skill because Mathil isn't stupid... but when fighting endgame bosses, may as well use glacial hammer instead.

And what does he say? Not smooth, not the best option, you have to be prepared to die a couple of times comparing to the regular stuff that farms end game.

He just illustrated a build that does everything right, not abusing broken stuff but relying on smart use of mechanics and it feels underwhelming end game why? Because we have end game toned around the Crit builds + double dipping ones.

Much wow. We were already saying that all along.

That also means that I have actual chances to try Guardians + Shaper with my main, I just have to get my skillplay to Mathil's levels...

"

sofocle10000 wrote:

And what does he say? Not smooth, not the best option, you have to be prepared to die a couple of times comparing to the regular stuff that farms end game.

...then again, question is:
Should this "regular stuff" be a baseline for how a good build should work?

Or can we agree that when fighting the hardest possible content in a game, "be prepared to die a couple of times" is acceptable? (Sorry, HC guys, but it isn't really HC when you're not prepared to die)

"

That also means that I have actual chances to try Guardians + Shaper with my main, I just have to get my skillplay to Mathil's levels...

...seems fair to me. :)
When I watch that video, I say: "That's how those fights should look like. Fuck up and you die."

Btw, is this 2h build, when factoring in the massive resistance penetration, too far off crit melee builds in terms of DpS?
"150k + pen" seems comparable to me. And he didn't even go allout DpS, he could squeeze a couple more % here and there.

"

Peterlerock wrote:

"

sofocle10000 wrote:

And what does he say? Not smooth, not the best option, you have to be prepared to die a couple of times comparing to the regular stuff that farms end game.

...then again, question is:
Should this "regular stuff" be a baseline for how a good build should work?

Or can we agree that when fighting the hardest possible content in a game, "be prepared to die a couple of times" is acceptable? (Sorry, HC guys, but it isn't really HC when you're not prepared to die)

"

That also means that I have actual chances to try Guardians + Shaper with my main, I just have to get my skillplay to Mathil's levels...

...seems fair to me. :)
When I watch that video, I say: "That's how those fights should look like. Fuck up and you die."

Btw, is this 2h build, when factoring in the massive resistance penetration, too far off crit melee builds in terms of DpS?
"150k + pen" seems comparable to me. And he didn't even go allout DpS, he could squeeze a couple more % here and there.

Oh, I called my main finished regarding leveling - heck, if I want to go above 97 with him I'll better respec into an Aegis optimised build like @Zloj has - so now it's the time to up the death's number and tackle every kind of content that the build can manage like this.

Great use of penetration and 90% of damage is cold already, and he's actually using a Slayernaught by combining the best that Juggernaut has to offer - stun/freeze/TC immunity - and constant leech up to "crazy" levels...

I would have enjoyed him to use CE instead of IAoE, or Glacial Hammer, but no problem, that is also what I would like to experience when playing end game content.

"

Peterlerock wrote:

"

sofocle10000 wrote:

Have you used Kongor on a build that uses a single targeting skill to kill Guardians/Shaper without relying on double dipping?

Mathil has: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n1Qbc4KMV8U
It's ice crash, so no single target skill because Mathil isn't stupid... but when fighting endgame bosses, may as well use glacial hammer instead.

Eh, Slayer is obscenely strong to begin with. With slayer leech, the aforementioned strengths of crit over noncrit shine even more, not to mention I think one of the major reasons that build was able to work was the built-in culling from slayer.

I doubt many other Ascendancies would have the luxury of attempting a build like this. The Life Leech continuing at full health saved his life multiple times in that video.

Just for fun let's pretend there's a new keystone called "tooltip warrior".

"You cannot miss and you always crit, but all non-crit damage modifiers do not work."

That node would be completely shit.

That's is why RT is shit. It literally does nothing but limits your damage potential.

The pantheon system coming out in 3.0 might add new systems/mechanics that allow you to boost your damage outside of critting or the generic status ailments or multi-mechanic attacks (melee totems are good because they are both a totem, summon, and melee attack + aoe)