Want to feel even more bad about playing a life build?

Without instant leech, more than half of current t1 builds would be simply DEAD. Im all for VP removal from the game and leaving only "on hit" instant leech options.

Game would be way easier to balance.

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eragon1111 wrote:

Without instant leech, more than half of current t1 builds would be simply DEAD. Im all for VP removal from the game and leaving only "on hit" instant leech options.

Game would be way easier to balance.

Leech mechanics have been overpowered since the early days of dungeons and dragons. It has always been notoriously difficult to balance.

No one should be able to face tank these big boss slams that are telegraphed under any circumstances except a perfectly played immortal call keypress, so the solution there is to make them do 50,000 damage across the board.

This by itself will make ES less attractive, as one of the main reasons ES is seen as so much better than life is the ability to have a huge pool of eHP to facetank big telegraphed slams and remove any player skill/perceptiveness/mistake avoidance/movement skill from boss fights.

The other ofc is that ES synergizes with DPS and AOE nodes so much while life takes away from DPS in almost all cases except for righteous fire as damage (aka pure righteous fire) builds. ES costs a lot less but is also on the best part of the tree to get coveted area of effect nodes and spell damage, all of which are anti-synergized by being on the life side of the tree.

So clearly more Area of effect needs to be on the lower left side of the tree, both to help poor sad melee splash, and to help balance the DPS loss of needing so many life nodes. Also need some big fat life nodes that penalize ES% need to be on the right side of the tree, so they are not just making Hybrid the new king. Something like flat life nodes that give minus flat es.

Then nerf Vaal pact make it 50% instant and give it more downside for ES, currently having ES means it's downside is completely negated because you weren't going to go get Zealots Oath anyways, because you couldn't do all the traveling to get the life regen you need to make Zealots Oath worth it. So Vaal Pact wich you'll note is NOT a staple of most life builds because the penalty frankly makes life feel clunky as fuck to play (you're forever hitting flasks to top up, and you might be surprised at how insanely annoying this becomes) does not apply to ES (you automatically flask ES when you don't take a hit and it;s auto-regen kicks in). So... Vaal pact, you can no longer auto-regen ES in any way.

Finally and add some DPS boosts that snyegize with life the way Pain attunement synergizes with boat loads of ES, for example a new keystone:

Naked Barbarism
If you have no Energy Shield you do 30% more melee physical damage and have 10% increased AOE

And maybe make a version of Righteous Fire that hurts the player for 70% of life pool, and 90% of ES pool (reverse of RF) and make it cold themed (no freeze ability) so say give 50-60% more Melee attack damage instead of spell...

Then make Vinktars leech a little less with the above changes that should do it.

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Mythabril wrote:

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eragon1111 wrote:

Without instant leech, more than half of current t1 builds would be simply DEAD. Im all for VP removal from the game and leaving only "on hit" instant leech options.

Game would be way easier to balance.

Leech mechanics have been overpowered since the early days of dungeons and dragons. It has always been notoriously difficult to balance.

Yep.

Theyd have to completely readjust fights with map mods in mind to make it fair. The biggest issue really is

Alot of mobs hitting you = Alot of damage, that is increased multiple times over depending on the map mods. You cant really blame them though, without leech ES builds in general wouldnt be anything. Theres no other forums of mitigation for ES, MoM doesnt work with it and its the only secondary mitigation thats within a reasonable range for them.

Im using LL+VP but im not a leech tank, could i swap to blade vortex and leech tank ? Absolutely. Doesnt work with Bladefall though and i dont want to play like that anyways, running around and kitting while regenerating and avoid big hits is the fun way of playing it.

The bigger problem is bosses stick to you like glue in hard maps, onslaught especially. A great example of a hard boss fight where a boss sticks to you is a high level Hallowed Ground map. Its double hastened brutus, dude runs around like a mad man.

Another thought how about making Vaal pack work kind of like Righteous Fire. Give it a thematic degen and make it stronger? So instant leech plus it would give bleed damage in an area around you, and instead of removing regen: degen 8% of life per second and 16% of ES per second.

So it's not as strong as RF DPS wise (gives instant leech instead of more spell%), not as high DPS (bleed would be tuned lower than RF's burn) and also not as harmfull to the player, life builds will be able to out regen it's degen by about 1% to 10% (extreme travel to get all Life regen) and ES builds would be able to achieve dangerous equilibrium or a tiny amount of positive regen by taking both Zealots Oath and EVERY life regen node on the tree.

Hmmm might be an idea for a vaal skill actually.

They should just make the wind-up attacks player life/es pool +1 pure damage.

It's one thing to outleech/regen a damage over time source(laser-beam) it's a whole other story when it happens to the "don't stand in the red circle" move.

And yeah, the value's are quite busted currently.

Right side of the tree + evasion + life is pretty cool beans atm if you don't take the scion life wheel or simply travel to the left side.

Peace,

-Boem-

Its easy fix - buff all life nodes to es nodes values and allow Pain Atunement work at low life/low energy shield. Done. And this could be done without re patching of client ;)

BTW - allow strength to scale life like int scales es. Percentwise.

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Yeah that's fine I'm just confused of why he linked the smash it's like ok we get it he can tank it but even if you were a life build you're suppose to move regardless so in most cases OP and others would be like LIFE CAN'T DO THAT.

Simple counter would be Life moves =/

There is implication of ES builds being able to tank everything while life builds having to move. ES builds are not only defensively stronger but since you dont have to move your damage output also will be higher. Furthermore, ES nodes are a lot more focused in 2 or 3 areas allowing for more efficient skill tree pathing compared to life builds that must travel to all life nodes in large area around your starting position.

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eragon1111 wrote:

Without instant leech, more than half of current t1 builds would be simply DEAD. Im all for VP removal from the game and leaving only "on hit" instant leech options.

Game would be way easier to balance.

What does that have to do with my post? He is not using VP but ZO and regen is insane enough. Whole point was ES@25K EHP life maxes at about 1/3 of that and cant take the big hits while ES can.

Removing VP is dumb too why would you want less diversity? Then everyone is a regen tank like this guy instead of a leech one further destory life builds even more who definity cant take two hits in succession w/o some VP leech while again ES can

I'd move VP to way lower left of tree away from the monsterous ES nodes but otherwise it's fine too. I have notplayed life in about a year since this patch and the real problem is % are way too low to compete with ES builds. T1 life on almost all gear 240% life in tree and jewels and pathetic 6500 life or 1/4 his EHP is what i'm dealing with.

All life node need about 50% buff. Like 5's become 7's or 8%ers.

Life should be weaker than ES due to flasks but not that fucking weak.

^^^
1)instant leech is essentially a form of defense. its too good for both es and life
if you think removing instant leech = removing leech, then you see the INSTANT leech is a problem, because by design most builds dont have instant leech. some build that is better off having regular leech than instant leech aside from slayer is ____. lets fill in the blank here. can we ? no ? then its too fucking good

2)life doesnt really need a buff, it needs more places in the tree where you can take life, and dissolve the dumb scion life wheel. on the other hand, es needs a definite NERF with all values through the roof on everything.

if you bring life up to the level of ES it will be ridiculously strong.


and I say it as someone who primarily plays life builds.