why people use CwDT + Immortal Call in the first place?

well.. this is exactly what i did. i have 25+ lvl90+ characters, including several 'light' ones (evasion/dodge/block/stuff in various proportions)

and form me CwDT+IC turned out to be a 'psychology' thing - 'sense of security'. but it failed me pretty often and pretty hard. mostly because 'red corrupted' maps are pretty much guaranteed to roll +%added elemental thus making everything elemental

also because i understand that a 'pure' character (like ONLY evasion/dodge/block + no mitigation) is NOT the way this game asks us to play - i simply do not make characters like that expecting miracles


i have no problems keeping 3-4 end charges up all the time (they are easy to keep up vs bosses with End Cry). all characters have easy access to 4. most ranged have access to 5 (duelist leech - if someone can get there, he can get the charge as well). it is a perma-Basalt all the time compared to randomly triggered blurp of phys-immunity i have no control over.

IC is very nice on characters built for that purpose - and with Guardians/Conduit - but im not convinced still that this 'combo' has more substance than simple habit+everyone does that.

anyway, thanks for your input (even the sarcastic one)

For me it protects me through reflect.

I like making characters that do way too much damage and often kills me or nearly kills me to reflect. If i hit a reflect mob, my hp will be around 10%, and the IC will proc and I will heal back a lot of HP during that period.

I tired without IC and every time I meet a reflect mob I'll die before I can heal up.

Though this is just personal experience. I'm not sacrificing damage for life - I want to ensure I can kill bosses with flicker strike too.

I made MoM/Acrobatics Shadow that used mostly pots to regain health and I found CwDT + IC very useful solely as indicator of when to drink health potion.

Argh, the title of this thread is "why people use CwDT + Immortal Call in the first place?" not "Endurance Charges are way better than CWDT-IC, ya'll are noobs!"

People have told you why they use CWDT-IC. Op, maybe you should make another thread about "why do people use endurance charges?"

Endurance charges are awesome, yes. But using only endurance charges on every character would be just as dumb as always using CWDT-IC without considering why.

first case:

4 extra projectiles + extra damage as lightning + porcupines... he would have died with IC just as easily. that was just reckless and stupid to do what he did there.

second case:

extra damage as fire + fracture + crit (he ended up ignited). pretty BS death nonetheless. i doubt IC would have helped (and in this very situation it would have been on cooldown anyway from previous encounter. this is the problem with IC+CwDT - it triggers on random and the cooldown is long enough to really screw you. kind of luck based LAST DITCH defence.). fractured is just an anti-melee mechanic btw..

Right then.

Let's see if we can get a mod to change the name of this thread to "IMMORTAL CALL SUCKS!" so people dropping into it know what it's actually about. Pretty plain at this stage that Sid's not interested in why people run CWDT > IC, only in lambasting it and telling people to run four hundred endurance charges on absolutely every single last build ever, including northeast-quadrant Witches and Shadows that are nowhere near any ECs, instead.

Seriously, dude. We're glad ECs work for you. Other folks run different defenses for different builds for different reasons. Stop. It. You know why people do it. if you don't like why people do it, that's on you, not us.

im not telling anyone to do anything. feel offended? sorry but i do not see why you butt in or what in my last post triggered you.

You asked a question.

People answered you.

You've spent five pages now telling everyone who answered you, no matter what their answer was, that they're wrong, stupid, and should totally be investing heavily in ECs, instead.

I'm a tid bit irked that you seem to be unable to comprehend arguments, yes. People have explained dozens of times why CWDT IC helps them. Your response to all of them is "YEAH BUT MAINTAINING 7+ ECS AT ALL TIMES WOULD HELP YOU EVEN MOR"

No. No, it would not.

CWDT IC requires two gem slots. Heavy investment in Endurance charges requires you to restructure your build's skill tree, often drastically, to reach and activate those ECs, as well as forcing you to find a solution for generating and maintaining ECs, especially during boss fights where they're most needed and also most difficult to build up.

No one is debating the value of ECs, man. We all know having a ton of ECs makes for an awesome physical mitigation layer. Not every build has room for heavy EC investment and also EC generation. Witches and Shadows have no real access to additional ECs unless they ignore their own areas to skillgrimage all the way to the opposite corner of the tree. Not everyone wants to blow their curse slot on Warlord's Mark. Enduring Cry is bad at generating charges; it's useful for maintaining them against bosses if you're diligent, but one charge every four seconds is a bad rate of charge building.

Some builds really do just work better with CWDT IC as an emergency catch. Most people are starved for skill points as it is - finding four to six extra points on top of pathing points to get to where you can spend those four to six points is a big damn ask for a great number of builds that aren't Marauders. Running Warlord's Mark on everything gets old, and also often clashes with other curses that might have been better for your build before you decided to make a huge, and often unnecessary, investment in ECs because some guy on the forum has a bug up his butt and figures that heavy EC investment is the only valid way to play PoE.

Since this is the Gameplay Help forum, I'ma argue the particulars for as long as I'm bored at work and have time to do so. CWDT IC is a low-investment option that works well for what sane and reasonable players expect of it - a way to catch unexpected damage bursts or delay incoming barrage damage for long enough to do something about it.

If you want CWDT IC to do the same job as 7+ ECs, you're stupid and need to be smarter. If you want to run a build that relies on 7+ ECs, then maybe don't take CWDT IC on that particular build, no. But don't ask people why they run CWDT IC, then respond with "YO'RE DUMB, ECS ARE SO MUCH BETTER!" every time someone answers you.

My right-side Raiders and Assassins and Elementalists and such do not have room in their builds for 7+ ECs. They do have room for CWDT IC. I know what to expect from CWDT IC and what not to expect from it. I use it to solve a few particular issues common to my mostly avoidance-based builds, and it does that well enough to serve.

That's good enough for me, and it ought to be good enough for you. if it's not, hey! You're not me! Play all the 7+ EC characters you like, but don't ask other people why they do something if you're not interested in the answer, hm?

I agree that CWDT is not relayable i even test CWS atm, but for this setup it drasaticly help to keep endurance charges up so to reduce down time and rise relayability.
Difrent builds get difrent levels of benefits in difrent situations so it not totaly usles, some builds need to keep charges up some compensate with high dodge/block.
Evry build should have multiple leyers of defences and this is after all one of them.