why people use CwDT + Immortal Call in the first place?

I use CWDT - Immortal Call on an Acrobatics/evasion character for a couple of reasons.

1. It's a little bit of insurance against multiple physical hits (in case I somehow get surrounded by plummeting ursae or porcupines or devourers, it happens).
2. I can't evade physical spells, so the cwdt - ic helps a little with that when nothing else does (when the dodge spells roll didn't work out in my favor).
3. It protects my physical Tornado Shot ranger from reflect.
4. It gives me a short time to be immune to bleed damage during which I can use a staunching flask. The small buffer is nice to have.
5. The sound of it going off alerts me to the fact that I am taking non-trivial damage and need to use a flask or run away.
6. I can run through traps a bit more recklessly.

this isnt off-topic at all. it is a balancing act each player has to make (conciously or not) - choice that makes build a 'nice build' or a 'flop'

what makes me think that 'wasting' these few passives to get End Charges (and other defences) is more important than yet another zero in my tooltip is this: it is WAY easier to get damage in this game. WAY easier. doubling your tooltip or whatever damage measurement we might use is easier than doubling your life or ES count

thats why im still amazed why this CwDT-IC business is still so strong when it helps in so few situations while hindering players in so many more..

edit: nevermind. You asked a question, it was answered. I don't want to start arguing what you think is the right or wrong way to play.

Here's a few reasons why it's not as bad as you are making out:

You can get almost up to a second of immunity with the skill duration tree nodes and Inc duration support gem.

Porcupines are a big issue for lots of characters if you have low armour. Maybe not for you, OP; but for most other people. Also tentacle miscreations (the phys part is much worse than the fire part) and those Plumed Chimerals which have little to no wind-up time on their barrages. There are quite a lot of sources of rapid-hitting physical damage, and it basically gives you enough time to react and gtfo.

On some characters I use warlord's mark for mana and life leech. This means I get 3 endurance charges a lot of the time. But I can't keep them up in boss fights, and it's not reliable. So I might as well use them for something useful and get a second or two of phys dmg immunity sometimes when damage spikes come in.

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sidtherat wrote:

i know. revolting isnt it? 'where is the damage?!'. well. dead men do no damage.

Pffft. Real men *only* deal damage when dead.

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SunsetVista wrote:

I use CWDT - Immortal Call on an Acrobatics/evasion character for a couple of reasons.

1. It's a little bit of insurance against multiple physical hits (in case I somehow get surrounded by plummeting ursae or porcupines or devourers, it happens).
2. I can't evade physical spells, so the cwdt - ic helps a little with that when nothing else does (when the dodge spells roll didn't work out in my favor).
3. It protects my physical Tornado Shot ranger from reflect.
4. It gives me a short time to be immune to bleed damage during which I can use a staunching flask. The small buffer is nice to have.
5. The sound of it going off alerts me to the fact that I am taking non-trivial damage and need to use a flask or run away.
6. I can run through traps a bit more recklessly.

1 end charges soften these hits up INCLUDING the first one that CwDT-IC accepts in full
2 end charges reduce the phys spell damage reliably and INCLUDING first hit. 24% in my case, 50%+ with Basalt
3 true. this one is actually probably better however i protect myself from phsy reflect by simply dealing more smaller hits instead of few large ones. at least i try to.
4 end charges cut the bleed damage AND initial hit by %. it double dips in your favor. if you have Marauder's End Charge you also regen life thus making the bleed/poison even less of a threat to the point when 20 corrupting blood stacks are just a niussance not an instant death
5 doesnt it get old after a while? it triggers after 500-1000 damage in most setups and that is quite frequently. 'waking up' sound however sounds plausible
6 i can assure you that end charges (esp if paired with regen. plus you can sustain them indefinetly with End Cry in Uber lab) make lab traps even easier.

but thank you, it made me think for a moment and consider other side of the argument

Sid, man?

You asked why people still use the CWDT > Immortal Call combo. People answered you. Why are you attacking them?

1.) A build that goes to the Marauder's Endurance charge is not a "right side" build, it's a "south half" build. South half builds are different things from right-side builds. Right-side builds don't have access to a lot of endurance charges, nor do they have any decent options for generating or maintaining them. Immortal Call doesn't cost them anything but sockets, since they're not eating their endurance charges they don't have to cast it.

2.) Right-side builds that are actually building on the right side of the tree do not have a lot of flat mitigation. As has been stated a dozen times, when your mitigation consists of RNG-based defenses such as Acro, Evasion*, Blind, and other such avoidance sources rather than flat mitigation, things such as Porcupine packs or Chimeras or Miscreations are not trivial problems. You have enough health on these builds to soak up those first few hits of the burst, but you don't have enough health to soak the other sixty. That brief bolt of immunity is enough to deal with the pack if you know what you're doing.

3.) As Sunset said, a lot of players use it as something of a "Srs Bsns" alarm - when your CWDT trips, you're taking damage and need to react to it. It's not foolproof, but it's more useful than you might admit.

4.) Kintsugi is a thing. Take a hit - mitigated by Kintsugi - be immune to additional physical damage (the majority of damage in the game) for a second or so, which gives you time to slam your Stibnite or your Taste or your whatever, or to Whirl/Leap/Blink out of there. You're one second closer to getting Kintsugi's mitigation back online, and in a better position to do so.

5.) It works. I've had the same notion you've had - does a bit less than a second of physical immunity really matter all that much? I ran builds without an Immortal Call trigger, then, and you know what happened? Porcupines wrecked them. Tentacled miscreations wrecked them. Other issues I'd never even thought about cropped up and informed me I was Missing Something. I've tried it both ways, and these days I run CWDT > Immortal Call on basically any right-side or north-half build, which is a majority of my builds. It smooths out play and gives me that crucial extra second to get my other defenses in place. On my particular Raider build, I have enough health restoration that the second-odd of phys mitigation I get from IC is often enough to restore my health completely against a large enough pack.

No one's demanding you run it too, Sid. But we're not going to stop running it because you've got a million Endurance charges on a south-side Raider. That's awesome, I'm glad it works for you. I prefer my nine-frenzy Raider with massive boosts to everything speed from all those delicious FCs I can only get if I stay away from the Marauder start and run up to Shadow, instead.

There's also occultist with "es recharge won't be stopped by damage if it began recently" you can get it to start after 0,7s which is the same as IC + 20/20 ID

What blue can I use in 4L with CWTD-ID-IC- seutp? Ranged chars. Used to use Enfeblee which is 8/10 imo, but mayby there are better options? hex-proof immune for example?

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skuadak wrote:

What blue can I use in 4L with CWTD-ID-IC- seutp? Ranged chars. Used to use Enfeblee which is 8/10 imo, but mayby there are better options? hex-proof immune for example?

I like Vaal Lightning Trap. It won't proc from CWDT but does benefit from increased duration. Great for boss kills.

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dudiobugtron wrote:

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sidtherat wrote:

i know. revolting isnt it? 'where is the damage?!'. well. dead men do no damage.

Pffft. Real men *only* deal damage when dead.

Remnants of Dominus MF runs. Awww yissss.

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skuadak wrote:

What blue can I use in 4L with CWTD-ID-IC- seutp? Ranged chars. Used to use Enfeblee which is 8/10 imo, but mayby there are better options? hex-proof immune for example?

Not much that offers sufficient utility in one gem. Vortex is the closest non-curse option I can think of, for patches of chilled ground on you any time your CWDT trips, but that works better for melee. Might still want to try it if you kite a lot, can think of worse things to kite enemies through than random CWDT Vortices. other than that...maybe Arctic Breath? Either that or use the slot for a blue aura you don't have room for anywhere else.