I always hear namelocking is 'bad' in PoE. Is it also 'bad' in other ARPGs ?

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raics wrote:

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grepman wrote:

its just that if thats the case, theres no distinction from AoE skills aside from naming. in one case you click a 'general area', and in the other case you click a 'general area'. there is no precision and the engine idiot-proofs you so even if you miss (lose) you still hit (win)

I just prefer having two sets of similar skills that a set of skills that is used and a set that isn't.

not sure how this is relevant to our discussion, if I understood you correctly. Im interested WHY people dont like to miss or mistarget, ie why people dont use this set of skills.

saying namelock should be like aoe because people dont like namelock is a circular argument in trying to understand why people dont like namelock

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raics wrote:

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grepman wrote:

this is a thread where I try to understand why people dont like the concept of 'missing' and want for namelock to be treated like an aoe mechanic (I slam my mouse in the 'general direction' and it magically hits an enemy) when it clearly isn't intended to be one.

It's no magic, it's common sense, doesn't this bother you:
- you wan to hit enemy A
- you misclick and hit thin air

no... not only does it not bother me, its also purely logical to me. you misclick an element on a UI, you dont actually end up activating the element around where you clicked. you attack air, you hit air. Fairly logical and straightforward, no ?

What's not logical is you attacking air and hitting something because...why ?

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grepman wrote:

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raics wrote:

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grepman wrote:

what does constitute as 'stinking' ? yes you arent autoaimed and you end up missing. is that it ?

Just try both side by side and compare the experience, it's faster than explaining it.

who said I haven't ?

I want people to come forward and say some shit like 'I want the game to correct my aim while playing an aoe skill because I really, really hate to hit air and I want my game experience to be smoother than babys ass'. thats sad, but acceptable. saying 'targeting is moronic' is not.

its just that if thats the case, theres no distinction from AoE skills aside from naming. in one case you click a 'general area', and in the other case you click a 'general area'. there is no precision and the engine idiot-proofs you so even if you miss (lose) you still hit (win)

People are giving you reasons, you just dont want to hear them, or keep up the discussion for the sake of the discussion.

Ie. Just answer this one: Why do we need namelock, when every single build that uses a namelocked skill uses a support that autotargets on two thirds of the strikes anyway, worse yet, strikes targets *randomly* in the vicinity?

Namelock as is in PoE is not only superfluous, because mob density and melee attack speed clearly is not laid out for "scalpels" but "sledgehammers". The mechanics present are also incredibly awkward, be it the implementation of the targeting, the supports and underlying mechanics of single target skills - or the actual reward for an aditional dificulty that aoe skills do not have.

There is no skill involved in using single target melee skills, just more awkwardness.

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grepman wrote:

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raics wrote:

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grepman wrote:

this is a thread where I try to understand why people dont like the concept of 'missing' and want for namelock to be treated like an aoe mechanic (I slam my mouse in the 'general direction' and it magically hits an enemy) when it clearly isn't intended to be one.

It's no magic, it's common sense, doesn't this bother you:
- you wan to hit enemy A
- you misclick and hit thin air

no... not only does it not bother me, its also purely logical to me. you misclick an element on a UI, you dont actually end up activating the element around where you clicked. you attack air, you hit air. Fairly logical and straightforward, no ?

What's not logical is you attacking air and hitting something because...why ?

What about targeting a mob correctly with your skill, but missing because it walked out of the way. That happens practically all the time. (we just dont notice, because melee splash, still a terrible DPS loss)

Is it logical that your character cannot adjust to a slowly moving target when striking it?

Just to play Devil's Advocate, namelocking is really useful when running Vorici "Don't kill any Guards" missions.

Also IF the game design of POE were skewed much further away from crowd clear and more toward tactical target selection (a la Final Fantasy), I would say namelocking is great.

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grepman wrote:

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raics wrote:

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grepman wrote:

this is a thread where I try to understand why people dont like the concept of 'missing' and want for namelock to be treated like an aoe mechanic (I slam my mouse in the 'general direction' and it magically hits an enemy) when it clearly isn't intended to be one.

It's no magic, it's common sense, doesn't this bother you:
- you wan to hit enemy A
- you misclick and hit thin air

no... not only does it not bother me, its also purely logical to me. you misclick an element on a UI, you dont actually end up activating the element around where you clicked. you attack air, you hit air. Fairly logical and straightforward, no ?

What's not logical is you attacking air and hitting something because...why ?

So, you don't think a trained warrior is capable of swinging his weapon in the general direction of an enemy? You tell him to do it, the interface fails to deliver the message and that's a problem.

What's wrong with giving him the command 'walk here and hit anything that stands in your way' he isn't smart enough to do that and is smart enough to block on his own? Fuck logic.

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adghar wrote:

Just to play Devil's Advocate, namelocking is really useful when running Vorici "Don't kill any Guards" missions.

You can still namelock just fine in games that have attack-move system, the game corrects you only when you don't.

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Cataca wrote:

People are giving you reasons, you just dont want to hear them, or keep up the discussion for the sake of the discussion.

no, see a lot of reasons people give dont explain why.

for example, your response.

your first point was precision. you want a namelock to behave like aoe skill. this only raises more questions than answers anything.

I dont understand why someone would hate to miss air when they click air or miss a moving target in a real-time system with rapidly moving objects. there has been no answer given as to why people dont like missing when they legit missed. the closest 'answer' I got was references to other arpgs. Im still waiting for someone to say 'its an arpg so you shouldnt miss at all'.

I see absolutely, positively nothing inherently wrong with missing, and missing a lot if you mis-aim on skills that involve targeting and not 'point to general direction, press x, win'. yes, I understand that compared to aoe that cant really miss, this is less efficient. not my point. but- efficiency can be an answer. no one has mentioned it though.

[qujote]
Ie. Just answer this one: Why do we need namelock, when every single build that uses a namelocked skill uses a support that autotargets on two thirds of the strikes anyway, worse yet, strikes targets *randomly* in the vicinity?[/quote]
who said we *need* namelock ? I never did. I asked why people dislike it. if people want to make it into aoe autoaim 'foolproof' bullshit, might as well make all skills autoaim. also, I never said multistrike was a good solution

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Namelock as is in PoE is not only superfluous, because mob density and melee attack speed clearly is not laid out for "scalpels" but "sledgehammers". The mechanics present are also incredibly awkward, be it the implementation of the targeting, the supports and underlying mechanics of single target skills - or the actual reward for an aditional dificulty that aoe skills do not have.

There is no skill involved in using single target melee skills, just more awkwardness.

how does mob density influence namelock though ? a single target skill should hit one target, logically, no ? namelock or no namelock.

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grepman wrote:

I see absolutely, positively nothing inherently wrong with missing, and missing a lot if you mis-aim on skills that involve targeting and not 'point to general direction, press x, win'. yes, I understand that compared to aoe that cant really miss, this is less efficient. not my point. but- efficiency can be an answer. no one has mentioned it though.

Why would your character take into account your accuracy when you use single target skills and not for AoE skills? Don't be a dude, this isn't an FPS game.