I always hear namelocking is 'bad' in PoE. Is it also 'bad' in other ARPGs ?

Lol, great thread.

After reading all the posts, your question was answered multiple times in first few pages. The answer is simple: "Because, it's implemented weakly". That's it.

And your conclusion is that Shift is the ultimate answer? With all that FPS comparisons, you don't find that as a weak band-aid for a melee? Where in your ideal world (looks like it's FPS game with precise hitbox targetting) holding the Shift to make skill work sounds good?

Anyway, I'll summarize the issues:
1) Multistrike – all hits should hit targeted monster, unless it dies in first 1-2 hits. After its death rest of the hits should continue on next nearest target within weapon range.

2) Small ground obstacles. Those should be ignored in close vicinity of monster when hitbox matching is being done. I.e. when monster is standing next to small ground obstacle and you click few pixels away from the monster but on ground object, you should still hit the monster. Maybe make hitbox of monster just few pixels larger to cover bit more of monster surroundings.

3) Interactable objects. When monster stands next to chest/strongbox/lever and you click the monster, all nametags of such objects should be ignored. Monster should have highest priority in hitbox matching than anything else. Or... I'd like to see option in UI “Use Loot key to interact with objects”. If it's checked you have to hold Loot key to operate chests/strongboxes/levers and if you don't hold the key you cannot interact with objects thus all hitbox matching ignores them.

Maybe there are more, just those few came to my mind right now.

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logosys wrote:

Lol, great thread.

After reading all the posts, your question was answered multiple times in first few pages. The answer is simple: "Because, it's implemented weakly". That's it.

thats a tautological 'no shit' answer. I already know people consider it weakly implemented.

the question is why was it weakly implemented ?

and the answer I got 'we want autoaim'. it's sad, to me, but hey- I got my answer.

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And your conclusion is that Shift is the ultimate answer?

not in the slightest. this wasn't my conclusion at all. my response with shift was that there is mechanics right now in the game that prevents walking to a target if you dont like walking to target.

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With all that FPS comparisons, you don't find that as a weak band-aid for a melee? Where in your ideal world (looks like it's FPS game with precise hitbox targetting) holding the Shift to make skill work sounds good?

sure, its a weak 'bandaid'. but theres no weaker bandaid than autoaim and foolproof targeting imo. if you need it, then remove targeting altogether - you arent really 'targeting' if you click in the 'general direction'

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Cataca wrote:

To be frank, you dont deserve the effort.

then dont quote me at all. why do it ?
you want your Fushta! ?

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You are circlejerking arguments and contradicting yourself. You are baiting others and are paraphrasing every post into "we want autoaim".

thats pretty much what people said tho- no need to paraphrase. people dont want to miss and want to hit the target even if target moved away- so either autoaim or huge hitboxes.

I asked why people dont like to miss, and was told because other skills dont miss. but then, for example, raics went and said that even namelock skills had 10 times the power of other skills, people still wouldnt like using them. so clearly people dont like missing NOT because of other skills being more powerful.

so question remains, why people hate missing ?

also, I dont think you quite understand what circlejerking means. Im not preaching to the choir here at all, its me against yall. and I stand my ground, thats what I was taught. while others stand around, I hold it down like a fort;

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At 10 attacks per second, where 3 of them have to be targeted just to initiate the skill, you need to constantly reshift your target to a still living mob on the screen to not waste one third of your attacks, it is an utterly mindwrecking experience.

Or you stubbornly hold down shift+ attack key. Which is basically what endgame with namelock skills looks like now.

whats inherently bad about reshifting the target ? again, epithets are not reasons. 'mindwrecking experience' doesnt really do it for me. Im doing that and it doesnt even close to what a 'mindwrecking experience' is to me.

whats inherently bad with holding shift + attack key down ? I dont see any real reasons presented by you.

"

Cataca wrote:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xD8anukkG20

lolwut, aint nothing being smashed but a table

[off]
speaking of smashing, I remember smashing stacks before they introduced canaries, and then continue through exception handlers...ah good old times with 'good' old compilers and bad operating systems. but amazing games. gotdamn...I dont belong here, dad fucked mom in the wrong year...
https://youtu.be/wviXD1nmW2g?t=171
[/topic]

on multistrike-

it was, is and will be an AWFUL bandaid or a 'bone' thrown to melee players, that remains with us since heavy desync days.

it doesn't really solve the problem nor is it a real solution.

at the time, it was actually a bandaid not specifically on namelocking, but to bring melee in line with casters. it was released at the same time as melee splash, which focused on AoE.

one of its main attractions was that it gave a huge attack speed multiplier bonus (at a time where 'more' bonuses were as rare as dimes in engineering teams)

just like a lot of GGG 'solutions', it was an ugly bandaid that didnt really address core melee problems (nor desync, at the time).

people for some reason think/assume I like multistrike for some reason. I don't. I don't like autotargeting (if you couldnt tell) on a single target melee skill, period. it's cheating and dumbed down mechanic to artificially make the game smoother, to me. so, I hate fucking multistrike. it was supposed to be a temp crutch for melee while GGG brainstorm ideas to make melee on par with ranged. here we are though, 3.5 years later (multistrike and melee splash were introduced in beginning of april 2013) still stuck with MS.

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grepman wrote:

people for some reason think/assume I like multistrike for some reason. I don't. I don't like autotargeting (if you couldnt tell) on a single target melee skill, period. it's cheating and dumbed down mechanic to artificially make the game smoother, to me. so, I hate fucking multistrike. it was supposed to be a temp crutch for melee while GGG brainstorm ideas to make melee on par with ranged. here we are though, 3.5 years later (multistrike and melee splash were introduced in beginning of april 2013) still stuck with MS.

Well, if you asked me to choose between magnet clicking and an environment where you could realistically be expected to aim at specific enemies I'd obviously choose the latter. And that's because it would mean a total game rework, slowing down the pace, limiting life/ES/mana recovery options, making each encounter a fight instead of mowing grass.

But I know it's unrealistic, the game will stay like this and in that case it isn't the question of getting autoaim or not, it's whether we should have gotten it two or three years ago.

Since I havent been a PoE player from the start this is nothing but my thought to the whole thing but anyway. I dont recall who did it but its already been summed up pretty well. At this point in the game where you kill more than 20 mobs per second in a dense map its a matter of speed. In games like D3 you have classes that namelock most of the time but pretty much every skill still has aoe properties (for all the casual to love it). Also, the way it locks onto a target is different and arguably a lot smoother/better but thats what blizz does. It makes technically good games and fucks up the gameplay. GGG could have a look at how it works and try to do something similar for a smoother experience.

"weakly implemented" in general is absolutely right but I feel like this could also be due to the time that passed. PoE has evolved a lot and whenever that happens in a game the stuff that couldve been okay back in the day is utter bs today. Melee doesnt seem to be the focus of development at any point in time but Im pretty sure that before beta which has been a long time ago, someone played melee and found it to be okay.

@raics
In the Lioneye's Watch Podcast they talked about this aswell. Making a change to melee and to namelock in general is a change to a fundamental part of the game. While this can be a good thing it could also backfire, people could say they hate it and the company would suffer as a result. For that reason they want to take their time with big decisions like this. 3.5 years is a pretty long time, I know but still I think this is what holds them back the most. What if they change it and its utter bullshit? This forum would burn. If I recall correctly they have something they want to change about it and 3.0 might be the time but still, you have to understand the huge risk involved.

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Pyrollusion wrote:

@raics
In the Lioneye's Watch Podcast they talked about this aswell. Making a change to melee and to namelock in general is a change to a fundamental part of the game. While this can be a good thing it could also backfire, people could say they hate it and the company would suffer as a result. For that reason they want to take their time with big decisions like this. 3.5 years is a pretty long time, I know but still I think this is what holds them back the most. What if they change it and its utter bullshit? This forum would burn. If I recall correctly they have something they want to change about it and 3.0 might be the time but still, you have to understand the huge risk involved.

There's no risk because there are currently no people that namelock in PoE, there are only those that tried to do it.

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raics wrote:

"

Pyrollusion wrote:

@raics
In the Lioneye's Watch Podcast they talked about this aswell. Making a change to melee and to namelock in general is a change to a fundamental part of the game. While this can be a good thing it could also backfire, people could say they hate it and the company would suffer as a result. For that reason they want to take their time with big decisions like this. 3.5 years is a pretty long time, I know but still I think this is what holds them back the most. What if they change it and its utter bullshit? This forum would burn. If I recall correctly they have something they want to change about it and 3.0 might be the time but still, you have to understand the huge risk involved.

There's no risk because there are currently no people that namelock in PoE, there are only those that tried to do it.

Not just namelock, I was talking about changes to melee in general