I always hear namelocking is 'bad' in PoE. Is it also 'bad' in other ARPGs ?

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Entropic_Fire wrote:

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grepman wrote:

I dont get it then- what do you mean by 'absence of other option'. aoe is another option, no ?

or are you talking about a mechanism to fool-proof the player (and engine) so he doesnt miss (like he actually did) and just make it so he hits the target instead anyway (ie, auto targeting- like multistrike does after first hit).

maybe I'm using 'namelocking' wrong.

Exactly, the complaint about PoE was never that you COULD namelock, but that you HAVE to namelock with single target. Most games going all the way back to D2 allow the multistrike style auto-targeting, that's what people want for all single target skills.

I think I understand your point and an answer to the question I initially posted, but as you can guess I'm utterly disappointed with it..

basically you want to 'cheat' real-time engine by correcting a 'miss' to a 'hit' if a mob moved in between animation, as long as you hit the hitbox in the first instance.

what is the point of a single target skill then ? aoe skill already doesnt require precise targeting. an auto-aim single target targeting removes the power of 'hitting' a mob and just makes it automatic;

not to mention, this creates many problems with poe engine. I mean, turbo vaal snakes with some sextant mods race like crazy anyway. in this case, you're cheating the engine to cater to player even more, so instead of hitting that snake youll instead hit something nearby if its there ? bleh.

and people think it's an acceptable tradeoff because the gameplay becomes smoother ?

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grepman wrote:

Seriously, someone answer this.

for example, out of recent ARPGS, GD has namelocking ST skills and they feel pretty good to me. Do people really hate clicking on one monster or is it a PoE thing ?

Ill admit poe is a bit clunky with namelock but it doesnt strike me as some unbearable shit that people make it to be.

Is it the lack of animation canceling in PoE ? Or are people at this point simply addicted to aoe skills where you can target any pixel out of hundreds and it will cover the whole area ?

Just tryin to get a feel whether people hate in comparison or just in general.

I like that namelocking exists, and I liked it in Diablo 2 also. It's good that there are both untargeted/ground targeted aoe skills and targeted skills.

Namelocking allows more control over targeting a specific tough monster, boss, or totem, or whatever. Sometimes I use faster attacks instead of multistrike (looking at you, viperstrike) so that I can be sure I'm hitting the main target. Namelocking makes that easier. Namelocking is also really nice when using a bow (with puncture for example).

AoE seems very strong in PoE right now, almost to the exclusion of single target attacks. Compared to having to actually target a monster with a melee skill, ranged aoe attacks are much easier to play. Namelocking doesn't help fast-paced aoe skills much.

Namelocking is fine for me because I'm used to it and prefer a more careful style. I can understand how others would find namelocking a nuisance if they aren't playing that way.

The reason why namelocking is utter crap in PoE is a combination of factors, imho.

First is the precision, if you dont target a mob exactly, and instead click on the floor next to it, you do nothing but move there. You can shift click in the vicinity to always strike at the general direction, but with the effect of only your meelee splash hitting the desired mob.
Why? I clicked a button, clearly intending to use a skill, and have my mouse pointed at the general direction of what to hit. Why the aditional barrier to initiate said skill?


Second, there is the issue that namelock melee skills practically have no choice but to use multistrike. Multistrike targets random enemies somewhere in the vicinity of your weaponrange twice, after you hit your target first.

Where is the logic in that? I need to target a mob somewhere, to initiate two other random strikes that hit something else? All the downsides of random auto-targeting and none of the upsides of focused damage, but the restriction of it (needing to specifically target something)


Namelocking has its place in other games where with low mob density, the upsides of focus targeting dangerous stuff to quickly eliminate incoming damage has a place. But in poe, the whole screen is filled with marginally challanging stuff. Why use that mechanic? It makes zero sense.

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Cataca wrote:

The reason why namelocking is utter crap in PoE is a combination of factors, imho.

First is the precision, if you dont target a mob exactly, and instead click on the floor next to it, you do nothing but move there. You can shift click in the vicinity to always strike at the general direction, but with the effect of only your meelee splash hitting the desired mob.
Why? I clicked a button, clearly intending to use a skill, and have my mouse pointed at the general direction of what to hit. Why the aditional barrier to initiate said skill?

Never thought I'd see someone saying a game letting you be precise was a down side.

I could use single target skills with some kind of splash effect in most major arpgs, Sacred 2 (magic coup ftw), TQ/GD, Torchlight and the oldie D2, and that's because auto targeting was done well.

In PoE I want to tear my hair out even with multistrike, no idea why is it so hard to make a character follow the mouse when you right click with a single target skill and attack if there's anything along the way. Probably some sort of engine limitation, they did say some things that should be a piece of cake are unreasonably hard to do, like mtx stash sorting.

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Telzen wrote:

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Cataca wrote:

The reason why namelocking is utter crap in PoE is a combination of factors, imho.

First is the precision, if you dont target a mob exactly, and instead click on the floor next to it, you do nothing but move there. You can shift click in the vicinity to always strike at the general direction, but with the effect of only your meelee splash hitting the desired mob.
Why? I clicked a button, clearly intending to use a skill, and have my mouse pointed at the general direction of what to hit. Why the aditional barrier to initiate said skill?

Never thought I'd see someone saying a game letting you be precise was a down side.

Yeah, maybe re-read what i wrote. There is a difference between a game allowing you to be precise, and needlessly setting up arbitrary barriers for skill initiation.

Poe's system is akin to a FPS in which you would only be able to shoot someone if you had his head in its crosshair.

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Cataca wrote:

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Telzen wrote:

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Cataca wrote:

The reason why namelocking is utter crap in PoE is a combination of factors, imho.

First is the precision, if you dont target a mob exactly, and instead click on the floor next to it, you do nothing but move there. You can shift click in the vicinity to always strike at the general direction, but with the effect of only your meelee splash hitting the desired mob.
Why? I clicked a button, clearly intending to use a skill, and have my mouse pointed at the general direction of what to hit. Why the aditional barrier to initiate said skill?

Never thought I'd see someone saying a game letting you be precise was a down side.

Yeah, maybe re-read what i wrote. There is a difference between a game allowing you to be precise, and needlessly setting up arbitrary barriers for skill initiation.

Poe's system is akin to a FPS in which you would only be able to shoot someone if you had his head in its crosshair.

not really- you want to hit a mob because you "have my mouse pointed at the general direction of what to hit"...

that shouldnt be good enough in fps to hit something. in fact, you should miss overwhelming majority of the time in fps.

unless you use console's controller autoaim which is bunch of fucking bullshit that, as far as I am concerned, can eat shit and die with consoles themselves.

I dont get why hitting a mob 'in vicinity' should be good enough. that doesnt make sense in spatial games.

Pack size, pace, movement speed and efficiency focus.

Also, mechanics which specifically punish being close to monsters or bossfights that have boss teleport around all the time and/or ground effects that limit places you can safely stand on.

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grepman wrote:

not really- you want to hit a mob because you "have my mouse pointed at the general direction of what to hit"...

that shouldnt be good enough in fps to hit something. in fact, you should miss overwhelming majority of the time in fps.

unless you use console's controller autoaim which is bunch of fucking bullshit that, as far as I am concerned, can eat shit and die with consoles themselves.

I dont get why hitting a mob 'in vicinity' should be good enough. that doesnt make sense in spatial games.

Dont be ridiculous please. My point was, that even in an FPS you can shoot while heaving nothing in your crosshair. And let us not forget, that between using a skill, and making the animation to hit, time passes. Say - a mob moves in a direction, you point your mouse in front of it, skill initiates - hits target. Does not work in PoE. You have to target a mob *precisely* but said mob doesnt stand still. It happens more often than not that you will hit the mob you targeted with only your melee splash, because the system is ass.

Dont believe me? Take out melee splash and multistrike -> Kill a pack of mobs and then tell me it was a good test of your skills. Thats like smashing your hands with a hammer, then playing PoE and claiming that despite your smashed fingers, you can still play, and its a good gauge of your skill. Its moronic.


Disregarding all that, heaving to target a mob precisely, to then hit two random mobs (autotargeted) in your vicinity is a complete shit system.

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Cataca wrote:

Dont be ridiculous please. My point was, that even in an FPS you can shoot while heaving nothing in your crosshair. And let us not forget, that between using a skill, and making the animation to hit, time passes. Say - a mob moves in a direction, you point your mouse in front of it, skill initiates - hits target. Does not work in PoE. You have to target a mob *precisely* but said mob doesnt stand still. It happens more often than not that you will hit the mob you targeted with only your melee splash, because the system is ass.

where am I being ridiculous ?

lets take FPS targeting. lets say you have a melee sword, yeah ? lets say it takes .5 seconds to perform a cool move. you go to the mob, initiate the attack in their face, but mob moves. you miss because you hit air.

how is it different from poe ? unlike a gun or ranged attack which you can shoot like youve said 'in front' of the mob, you cant really do a melee attack in fps game in front of the mob and expect the mob to jump on it. you have to take a weapon, aim it at a mob's body part and perform the attack.

it's definitely not "You can shift click in the vicinity to always strike at the general direction"

I mean, you clearly said that if you strike in 'the general direction' (ie " I clicked a button, clearly intending to use a skill, and have my mouse pointed at the general direction of what to hit"), you expect the mob to be hit. this is autoaim at its finest.

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Dont believe me? Take out melee splash and multistrike -> Kill a pack of mobs and then tell me it was a good test of your skills. Thats like smashing your hands with a hammer, then playing PoE and claiming that despite your smashed fingers, you can still play, and its a good gauge of your skill. Its moronic.

what do you mean I dont believe you ? I know how the targeting system works. I'm trying to understand why people don't like it. sorry, bunch of epithets doesn't really explain it.

I don't consider what 'other' arpgs do in terms of animation canceling, and foolproof lax targeting any better, because they turn misses into hits and thus are no better than performing an aoe attack. clicking 'in general direction' is how people play aoe skills already.