So I get inspired by "thinktwice1416" with provided link to Pathfinder Discharge Firestorm build and tweaked build a bit so now is able to farm Shaper and do all maps. Didnt tried Uber Atzir and Hall of Grandmasters yet but I guess it will work now as well.
Spoiler
Its with 88% chance to hit. 8.5k es without Energy from Within - its better to use jewel slot for damage jewel. Discharge has 1.7k dps on tooltip, its 68k dps with Power Charges. Firestorm has 7.5k vs 12.2k dps and works as replace for nerfed 2x Blade Vortex to sustain Power Charges.
Didnt tried that gem instead of Faster Attacks in armor, but I guess it can work too. Reason for Faster Attack is mobility. Therefore in this build are 2 quicksilver flasks which help to dodge attacks and help with attack too. Attack speed is 6.1 in this scenario.
Cospri without life leech has 100k dps but its not enough to kill Shaper and keep Vinktar on for life leech. Didnt tried to put Life Leech into armor, but from other maps I know its not reliable.
Shaper can be killed without Vinktar. But Vinktar helps when there are Vortex on the ground and I was using it only in that case and in fight with Unshaped forms. Lightning Penetration flask is better due more damage.
That jewel using for leveling and Increased Area Effect gem instead of Concentrated.
Regards more tweaks: there would be good to have Vinktar pene flask, Oak flask, penetration on belt and penetration enchant on boots. For armor instead of Empower take Longer Duration gem and instead of Attack Speed take Power Charge on Crit. PCOC for sure if go with helmet enchant More Dicharge Damage, as this enchant can work better if go with only one Discharge and no 2x. If all that would be on place, than maybe will be enough leech with: CWDT + Warlord Mark and Cospri with Discharge + Conc Effect + Controlled Destruction.
Under line note:
I was trying that setup with 2x Discharge instead of Firestorm when I had 380% critical multiplier and it was not working for me - lack of sustain Charges (as was said - Blade Vortex is missing); I guess Choir of the Storm is better, but more testing is needed to confirm that.
Good luck and have a fun :).
So you think choir and pure lightning discharge was more damage than having endurance charge generation from volls?
So I get inspired by "thinktwice1416" with provided link to Pathfinder Discharge Firestorm build and tweaked build a bit so now is able to farm Shaper and do all maps. Didnt tried Uber Atzir and Hall of Grandmasters yet but I guess it will work now as well.
Spoiler
Its with 88% chance to hit. 8.5k es without Energy from Within - its better to use jewel slot for damage jewel. Discharge has 1.7k dps on tooltip, its 68k dps with Power Charges. Firestorm has 7.5k vs 12.2k dps and works as replace for nerfed 2x Blade Vortex to sustain Power Charges.
Didnt tried that gem instead of Faster Attacks in armor, but I guess it can work too. Reason for Faster Attack is mobility. Therefore in this build are 2 quicksilver flasks which help to dodge attacks and help with attack too. Attack speed is 6.1 in this scenario.
Cospri without life leech has 100k dps but its not enough to kill Shaper and keep Vinktar on for life leech. Didnt tried to put Life Leech into armor, but from other maps I know its not reliable.
Shaper can be killed without Vinktar. But Vinktar helps when there are Vortex on the ground and I was using it only in that case and in fight with Unshaped forms. Lightning Penetration flask is better due more damage.
That jewel using for leveling and Increased Area Effect gem instead of Concentrated.
Regards more tweaks: there would be good to have Vinktar pene flask, Oak flask, penetration on belt and penetration enchant on boots. For armor instead of Empower take Longer Duration gem and instead of Attack Speed take Power Charge on Crit. PCOC for sure if go with helmet enchant More Dicharge Damage, as this enchant can work better if go with only one Discharge and no 2x. If all that would be on place, than maybe will be enough leech with: CWDT + Warlord Mark and Cospri with Discharge + Conc Effect + Controlled Destruction.
Under line note:
I was trying that setup with 2x Discharge instead of Firestorm when I had 380% critical multiplier and it was not working for me - lack of sustain Charges (as was said - Blade Vortex is missing); I guess Choir of the Storm is better, but more testing is needed to confirm that.
Good luck and have a fun :).
So you think choir and pure lightning discharge was more damage than having endurance charge generation from volls?
Yes, "pure lightning discharge"/Firestorm with Choir is doing more damage. EDIT 31.32017: not true all time, check page 158 for new info.
= 6 Endurance Charges. Even there are on Discharges tooltips damages 110-120k dps, I am not able to beat Shaper, fight take just too much time, usually dying in 3rd phase. Note: I have lowered dps by taking out 30% crit multi and that node invested into +1 Endurance Charge "Endurance" nod - path to Doom Cast.
To presented Volls armor I gave instead of Discharge Firestorm and I have died only on Ground Slam from Shaper or Unshaped form, if I was not taking care enough. I believe Taste of Haste can help with mitigation of that damage, but not tested it.
Have gave a chance to Increased Discharge Dmage enchant on helmet with Power Charge on Critical gem, but its not working well in this build. 30% Chance to Not Consume Charges is much better.
In the end, Power Charge on Critical gem shows as very very good gem; so for now I will go with Firestorm + Power Charge on Critical + Increased Critical Strike + Cast on Critical Strike + Cyclone + Attack Speed - 3g3b. I believe that 3b2g1r can be great too with Empower or Increased Duration (Fortify maybe?), but, again, have to test it and dont have armor with such colors yet.
Discharge in this patch, in my opinion, is worth to play with Pathfinder, if somebody is willing to farm Shaper, as refilling flasks help a lot. Most of time I am finishing phases of fight with Shaper without flasks, but Life Leech in Cospri make fight able to win deathless.
If there is a chance to have resist capped, I would take Seven boots. Those are fantastic for Cyclone, movement, dodge. Skyforth maybe can help a bit with Power Charges generation, but imo movement speed is more important. If somebody going to test it, please let us know :).
yeah I also want to know is Choir of storm better than Voll's devotion now..? When I use it with lower critical multiplier below 300% it feels like it deals less damage than Voll's, but feel much stronger when critical multiplier is more like >500%, with the same critical chance of course plus 7power 5endur for Voll's.. can someone more experienced share me your result..? I don't have the high level maps and boss with huge life pool like T16/T17 to test..
and is anyone able to play LL + righteous fire version without Vinktars..? I tried warlord's mark + life leech gem in cospri but I can't leech back in 1 discharge or in other words a very short amount of time versus single target..
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Have gave a chance to Increased Discharge Dmage enchant on helmet with Power Charge on Critical gem, but its not working well in this build. 30% Chance to Not Consume Charges is much better.
Is the difference here significant enough for someone not especially trying to do shaper/uber to care about? I have a very nice (460es) discharge damage helm on temp league that would be very hard to replace with a similar charges helm.
Have gave a chance to Increased Discharge Dmage enchant on helmet with Power Charge on Critical gem, but its not working well in this build. 30% Chance to Not Consume Charges is much better.
Is the difference here significant enough for someone not especially trying to do shaper/uber to care about? I have a very nice (460es) discharge damage helm on temp league that would be very hard to replace with a similar charges helm.
I have tested More Discharge Damage helmet only on Shaper and there is significant difference.
For maps to lvl 15, from my observation I guess, there is no much difference in damage as normal mobs can be one shotted anyway, if proper jewels are on place. The same apply for Choir vs Volls amulet. Difference become more obvious in boss fights in lvl 16 and higher maps.
Nevertheless if you can get Not Consume Charges helmet, get it. Its worth. The main reason for this enchant is, that you get much more stable crit chance = more stable Power Charges generation with Cyclone and other gems. If charges are lost, there is low damage or no damage at all once they are discharged. That means in the end slower farming, lower damage, not consistent life leech. Main reason to have maximum Power Charges is chance to crit all time > every time they are lost its like to start generating them from the scratch, like fresh enter into map. Goal is to have "permanent" Power Charges = maxed crit chance = maxed damage = stable life leech.
Have gave a chance to Increased Discharge Dmage enchant on helmet with Power Charge on Critical gem, but its not working well in this build. 30% Chance to Not Consume Charges is much better.
Is the difference here significant enough for someone not especially trying to do shaper/uber to care about? I have a very nice (460es) discharge damage helm on temp league that would be very hard to replace with a similar charges helm.
I have tested More Discharge Damage helmet only on Shaper and there is significant difference.
For maps to lvl 15, from my observation I guess, there is no much difference in damage as normal mobs can be one shotted anyway, if proper jewels are on place. The same apply for Choir vs Volls amulet. Difference become more obvious in boss fights in lvl 16 and higher maps.
Nevertheless if you can get Not Consume Charges helmet, get it. Its worth. The main reason for this enchant is, that you get much more stable crit chance = more stable Power Charges generation with Cyclone and other gems. If charges are lost, there is low damage or no damage at all once they are discharged. That means in the end slower farming, lower damage, not consistent life leech. Main reason to have maximum Power Charges is chance to crit all time > every time they are lost its like to start generating them from the scratch, like fresh enter into map. Goal is to have "permanent" Power Charges = maxed crit chance = maxed damage = stable life leech.
The Not to consume charges enchant doesn't help in granting charges or sustaining it, it only conserves your charges every 3rd/4rth discharge. If you are using single discharge gem and your charge generation is high enough i.e 5+ charges every discharge then its kinda redundant.
The setup you scraped from tw garena player is known atleast to us garena players for quite some time now. Here is the original pathfinder build it's based upon.
https://web.poe.garena.tw/forum/view-thread/172912
The video's you saw from the player has no doubt modified it. But the damage/power charge generation comes basically from:
1. Since the base damage comes from jewels alone, so using jewels reaching atleast 500+ crit multi, maybe even 600.
2. Penetration from flasks, vinktar and wise oak would add upto 40% penetration, 50% if using legacy vinktar. With pathfinder it would mean they are up 100% of the time, so the damage would be quite high.
3. Once again with pathfinder since you can keep vinktar up all the time, you don't need leech from warlords mark, so you can easily use elemental weakness and gain even more damage.
4. Better use Skyforth's to gain even more power charges.
What my real question is if the setup is helpful for an ascendancy other than pathfinder. Are you able to do Shaper on less budget i.e jewels less than 500 crit multi?
The Not to consume charges enchant doesn't help in granting charges or sustaining it, it only conserves your charges every 3rd/4rth discharge. If you are using single discharge gem and your charge generation is high enough i.e 5+ charges every discharge then its kinda redundant.
The setup you scraped from tw garena player is known atleast to us garena players for quite some time now. Here is the original pathfinder build it's based upon.
https://web.poe.garena.tw/forum/view-thread/172912
The video's you saw from the player has no doubt modified it. But the damage/power charge generation comes basically from:
1. Since the base damage comes from jewels alone, so using jewels reaching atleast 500+ crit multi, maybe even 600.
2. Penetration from flasks, vinktar and wise oak would add upto 40% penetration, 50% if using legacy vinktar. With pathfinder it would mean they are up 100% of the time, so the damage would be quite high.
3. Once again with pathfinder since you can keep vinktar up all the time, you don't need leech from warlords mark, so you can easily use elemental weakness and gain even more damage.
4. Better use Skyforth's to gain even more power charges.
What my real question is if the setup is helpful for an ascendancy other than pathfinder. Are you able to do Shaper on less budget i.e jewels less than 500 crit multi?
I am not sure who you are addressing, but if me, than I believe we are talking the same but we have different "language mentality".
Regards Not Consume Charges vs More Discharge Damage: "conserves charges" = sustaining charges = helping to get/stack charges in next hit. Please elaborate how are you able to generate 5+ Power Charges in 250 window if possible. Because if you can generate 5+ than More Discharge Damage enchant still can be worth or be even more valuable than Not Consume Charges enchant. I was not able to generate that amount of Charges in 250 window with: Volls armor + Cyclone + Power Charge on Crit + Discharge + Blade Vortex + Firestorm.
Regard Garena link: first time seeing this, its chinese alphabet, dont understand it. I get insipired by this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kUO6ouEHdMw and made build with trying different setups/items/gems.
Ad 1 - yup, can be... but didnt tested it.
Ad 2 - yup, as I wrote, nevertheless I dont see difference between Vinktar and legacy Vinktar - both have 10% penetration.
Ad 3 - I was never able to use Warlord Mark for leeching endgame, I dont think its worth in Assassin too.
Ad 4 - yes, I tough so - than I would go, if resists are caped, with Skyforth for endgame, otherwise Seven-steps. Btw I hope you talking from you own experience.
I dont know what budget is minimum. I was asking for end game setup here and there, and get no response. So what I presented here is what I figured out, how to farm it again. My crit chance is 466% with Life Leech in Cospri and dying only on Ground Slam or in 3rd Phase when there are too many spells and played poorly like kamikaze. Before with 2x Blade Vortex I had 320% crit multi and Controlled Destruction instead of Life Leech in Cospri.
I am not sure who you are addressing, but if me, than I believe we are talking the same but we have different "language mentality".
Regards Not Consume Charges vs More Discharge Damage: "conserves charges" = sustaining charges = helping to get/stack charges in next hit. Please elaborate how are you able to generate 5+ Power Charges in 250 window if possible. Because if you can generate 5+ than More Discharge Damage enchant still can be worth or be even more valuable than Not Consume Charges enchant. I was not able to generate that amount of Charges with: Volls armor + Cyclone + Power Charge on Crit + Discharge + Blade Vortex.
Regard Garena link: first time seeing this, its chinese alphabet, dont understand it. I get insipired by this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kUO6ouEHdMw and made build with trying different setups/items/gems.
Ad 1 - yup, can be... but didnt tested it.
Ad 2 - yup, as I wrote, nevertheless I dont see difference between Vinktar and legacy Vinktar - both have 10% penetration.
Ad 3 - I was never able to use Warlord Mark for leeching endgame, I dont think its worth in Assassin too.
Ad 4 - yes, I tough so - than I would go, if resists are caped, with Skyforth for endgame, otherwise Seven-steps. Btw I hope you talking from you own experience.
I dont know what budget is minimum. I was asking for end game setup here and there, and get no response. So what I presented here is what I figured out, how to farm it again. My crit chance is 466% with Life Leech in Cospri and dying only on Ground Slam or in 3rd Phase when there are too many spells and played poorly like kamikaze. Before with 2x Blade Vortex I had 320% crit multi and Controlled Destruction instead of Life Leech in Cospri.
Since it can't be accurately measured, its a bit uncertain to exactly know how many, but you can gain atleast 4 charges theoretically from the setup, using offcourse voll's protector.
2 from cyclone given you make 2 hits between every discharge when your aps is atleast 6.
2-4 from pcoc linked to it and the bv or even if you use firestorm in coc.
I usually end up with atleast 4+ charges left after using single cyclone/discharge click on a single target, multiple targets is always 7 no doubt. Using lvl21 pcoc's btw, not sure if they make any difference. Using bv in cwdt & firestorm in coc might even push the charge generation higher.
Scrap the exact penetration calculation i made there,got a bit carried away, but you still get a decent amount if using both flasks. Legacay Vinkar free's the Vaal pact node nevertheless.
If you don't use warlords leech, then what do you use on single target boss's like guardians? You need leech to sustain with this build, if not using pathfinder and vinktar's it has to come from warlords mark.
I did try skyforth's and it does help with power charge generation, but the +1 & bleed immunity you get from death's door is better for mapping.
My question remains, are you able to deal significantly more damage with your setup to farm shaper faster?
Is using choir & firestorm worth loosing EE in the process?
Regarding the garena build (in chinese) that video is based upon, if you want the exact skill gem links used, pm me and i will give you the links.
