On the subject of Gold.

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RodHull wrote:

I read it that you made some glib comment to somebody that the current system has no value because its no better at controlling farming than a gold based system.
This very point assumes there is a system which can prevent farming, when in fact there isn't.

I am saying that farming doesn't change. Just the name of the thing you are farming changes.

You are really good at putting your own meaning to my words.

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RodHull wrote:

On a side issue though, this system however does make farming more problematic for bots which is a big consideration when you have a F2P game where anyone can make accounts

No it doesn't. Farming is easier than ever before in PoE.

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RodHull wrote:

No it doesn't. Gold has a perceived value (in gaming terms) it has no real value, only the value that a Developer assigns to it by setting a baseline. For example 25Gold for 1 x scroll of wisdom.

Where as a scroll of wisdom has a real intrinsic value in that it is able to perform a function of its own in identifying weapons. Using this system players will over time gravitate toward the hoarding and use of certain orbs/scrolls more than others and in trade terms they will become more valuable while others will be perceived less so.

If gold can be turned into scrolls of wisdom, and scrolls of wisdom has an intrinsic value, then gold has an intrinsic value.

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RodHull wrote:

In a gold system all you are doing is adding a middle man (or a mechanic) to facilitate the trading of those exact items (orbs/scrolls) which we currently have, so please explain why this would improve things at all?? Have you never played an arpg before?? Cause unless they have tightly controlled loot systems gold just doesnt work.

It would improve things because it's alot easier to trade with a uniform currency. That is a fact.

Gold does not have to be any more controlled than the current so called "currency items".

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RodHull wrote:

It works in MMOs like say WOW or your game of choice DDO cause those have tightly controlled economies and loot systems. The DEVS and players can easily attach gold values to everything in the game ahead of time because everyone knows what will appear beforehand.

That is just BS.

Do you have the slightest clue of how pricing works?

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RodHull wrote:

In an ARPG or any randomised loot system this becomes MUCH more problematic. Cause in real terms vendors are basically useless, they are just a way to get rid of junk and get something vaguely useful back. Take D2 nobody traded for GOLD cause it was worthless, its only purpose was to gamble with, and that was a sideline at best. Indeed even in MMOs you will often hear the phrase 'gold sink' bandied around, thats basically cause beyond a certain point gold loses its meaning UNLESS its a finite amount.

Gold was useless in D2 because they completely failed with the implementation. That does not mean gold will always be useless.

What is wrong with gold sinks?

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RodHull wrote:

Now take a game like EVE with a highly advanced economy. At any one time there is only a finite amount of cash in the game, there are a few ways to earn money from NPCs but that is offset by players losing ships and equipment. What you have there is a working economy where money has REAL value, cause its finite. In a game like POE gold (if it were implemented) would be infinite, and therein lies the problem, one that you are determined not to acknowledge.

How is cash created in eve exactly? I have not played it.

Gold would not be infinite in PoE. You would need an infinite amount of time to get infinite amount of gold.

The current currency items are just as infinite as gold would be, yet they have value.

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RodHull wrote:

You misunderstand me, ive never played ANY online game except EVE where gold (or currency) had any real meaning. Cause the very concept of giving a value to something that is produced infinitely but never disappears is utterly flawed. You seem intelligent how do you not get that?

That is like saying the dollar is utterly flawed.

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RodHull wrote:

The only exception to this are games which implement clever gold sinks, in those games they force a meaning/purpose onto their currency by making certain extraneous game systems reliant on it. Those systems are nearly always forms of vanity/elite gear (needed for crafting) or something like player housing. All concepts which just aren't needed and wouldn't work in an ARPG like POE.

Would you stop with the "wouldn't work for an ARPG" crap?
There is no reason what-so-ever to believe that a viable gold sink would not work in PoE.

I have never seen such a closed mind. You talk prodly about how "unique and innovative" the system is, yet you shun new ideas because "that's not how it was done before".

A working gold system in an ARPG, now wouldn't that truly be "unique and innovative"?
What are you so afraid of?

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RodHull wrote:

Yes, for one it assumes all your points are so important and mindblowing they deserve a special place, where as in fact often you just write a two line offhanded brush off. And secondly it makes replying to you very tedious (even more so)

rofl.

I find it much better to reply this way, and I much prefer it when others reply to me this way.

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Wittgenstein wrote:

I don't know jack about economics...

Yet you are so keen on giving your opinion.

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Wittgenstein wrote:

Gold (or some kind of typical currency) has no intrinsic value, by that I mean, a millionaire in the desert is no better off then a poor man in the desert.

A man with a million gcp in the desert is no better off than a poor man in the desert.

But that's not really how you define intrinsic value, now is it?

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Wittgenstein wrote:

In most games, currency has it's value set (near as I can tell) by two factors:

1. the difficulty of acquiring the currency.
2. the influence of values set by the developers (from shops/currency sinks)

Since (1) eventually becomes trivial (on a long enough time line as more and more of the player base hits upper levels the influx of currency into the world increases exponentially). Also, (2) becomes moot, because top-level players, with the most wealth, rarely need to buy items from the shops. So, at those levels, most trades happen as item for item, not currency for item. Take D2 for example, no amount of gold was going to buy you a Zod rune.

So, I only see currency as having relevance in the beginning of the game, and to facilitate sinks (Like repairing your gear).

If you make less false assumptions you conclusions won't be so wrong.
For example, there is no reason to believe that it will always become trivial to aquire the currency or that top-level players will not have a use for the currency.

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Wittgenstein wrote:

PoE's system is superior imo, because the currency in this game.

1. has intrinsic worth.

Gold can have that.

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Wittgenstein wrote:

2. Due to (1) it (the orbs) are their own sink (you use them, they go poof) which eliminates the need for extraneous systems like repairing.

Gold can have that.

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Wittgenstein wrote:

3. Every player, at every level, obtains the same items. At level 2 you can find a regal just like the guy at level 40. Contrast that with typical currency systems in which the players at the bottom level (n00bs!) simply cannot compete with the buying power of those at the top.

Gold can have that.

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Wittgenstein wrote:

Now, of course, I recognize some of the pitfalls with PoE's system. Particularly the fact that players constantly need to ask "What is the value of X orb? How many X orbs for a Y orb?" etc..

However, I don't see that issue as impacting enough to warrant the elimination of the system GGG has in place, and I feel that the positives from the system we have outweigh the negatives.

I dearly hope that the devs don't take feedback from someone who "don't know jack about economics" seriously.

@Sickness

Dude I tried to be nice but you are just offensive, you seem spoiled, live a day in some other person's shoes before you call them "ignorant" and as for the economy the rich get richer, if they'd invest it we'd all be better off but they hoard it and raise the prices of crap on EVERYONE else, that is the way ANY ECONOMY works. Oh and by the way if this system UPSETS you look at it from a Dev point of view: It's not a CLONE, it is in fact a unique idea and I'd rather not play a game that's been dead and dug up repeatedly.

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cybrim wrote:

@Sickness

Dude I tried to be nice but you are just offensive, you seem spoiled, live a day in some other person's shoes before you call them "ignorant"

I don't have to live a day in your shoes to know that you are ignorant about gold. You made it perfectly clear.

I would rather say that you are spolied because of your way of completely ignoring what people how knows alot more than you on the subject are saying.
Screw facts, just make it so that you get what you want!

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cybrim wrote:

Oh and by the way if this system UPSETS you look at it from a Dev point of view: It's not a CLONE, it is in fact a unique idea and I'd rather not play a game that's been dead and dug up repeatedly.

Didn't you hear the self-proclaimed ARPG-expert RodHull? This system is not unique, it's the same old. Only this time they didn't even try to be innovative and come up with a gold system that works well.

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Wittgenstein wrote:

I don't know jack about economics...



Gold (or some kind of typical currency) has no intrinsic value, by that I mean, a millionaire in the desert is no better off then a poor man in the desert.

as opposed to a guy who owns million scrolls of wisdom in the desert? (or million orbs)

The system is NOT broken, most of the people here enjoy it because they aren't getting a whole bunch of absolutely non-intrinsic crap that is only used early on to buy things but always repair equipment (unneeded in this game). I see no real argument for any currency the game is Survivalist in nature.

If the devs threw in currency and had it as a 1/9999 stackable item but did nothing for you most people would laugh at you if you offered it to them.

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cybrim wrote:

I see no real argument for any currency

Then you aren't looking.

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Sickness wrote:

"

cybrim wrote:

I see no real argument for any currency

Then you aren't looking.

Who the hell WANTS to argue over something so unimportant? The devs already decided on it AND THE SYSTEM WORKS! The current system fits with the backstory. They aren't trying to rehash everything we've been accustomed to, if they did that this game would turn out to be a FAILED WOW clone and I MEAN that... Here is the train of thought of WCS (WOW Clone Syndrome)


1. Oh lets keep something EVERYONE ALREADY HAS!

2. Lets try to be as NORMAL AS POSSIBLE to keep stragglers!

3. Lets only do what people already know and are familiar with!

4. Lets change up 1 or 2 things occasionally (it's already F2P... somewhat)

5. Lets make sure kids can play this game to increase our target audience (bye bye blood & gore)

6. Lets include things to the universe that were considered in the very beginning to be so lame and unfathomable the target audience cries tears of blood (panda characters?)

7. watch once long time fans flee in terror to ANYTHING ELSE!

GOLD
G= Good
O= Orb
L= Loot
D= Drops

There IS GOLD...

Sigh... So if a game has gold it's a wow clone? Gotcha.