Wow, Doryani's is GOOD

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Goldarm5 wrote:

Just one thing about LC that is often misinterpreted. The only scenario where LC has a synergy with armour if you manage to get 90% phys reduction (with Lightning Coil) and more than 90% lightning res, because in that scenario it sets your phys reduction cap higher (Up to 95% phys reduction with Legacy Coil and 100% lightning res). In all other cases a lightning coil reduced the reduction of your armour. Because of that Lightning Coil also is a bit less than 22.5% phys reduction at 75% lightning res. The 22.5% are only correct if you have NO phys reduction at all.

I think you're thinking of the wrong type of synergy. Lightning Coil reduces the size of the Hit before it goes into the Armour formula. The Armour formula bases the % physical damage reduction on the size of the HIt.

I dug up the Google Sheets I mentioned before.

public link
private, in case public gets vandalized (save sheet)

You can double check the formulas I've entered with the Armour page on the wiki and Mark_GGG's post:

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Mark_GGG wrote:

All modifiers to the type of damage taken apply before that damage is mitigated. Otherwise they wouldn't do anything.

Im well aware how lightning coil and phys reduction work.


Lightning Coil increases the % phys reduction, because phys reduction is based on the raw phys dmg taken and lightning coil makes the hit smaller, just like you said. But if you take less raw phys dmg your increased % phys reduction applies to a lesser amount. If you relate that increased phys reduction back to the whole hit you will notice that your armour mitigates less dmg of the whole hit then it would have done without the lightning coil.

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Goldarm5 wrote:

If you relate that increased phys reduction back to the whole hit you will notice that your armour mitigates less dmg of the whole hit then it would have done without the lightning coil.

Interesting. I updated the sheets to reflect what you're talking about. I stand by my statements that Armour has synergy with LC, though; even though the absolute damage points mitigated by LC goes down, the proportional damage points mitigated actually goes up, and IMO proportional is what matters the most, because nearly all alternative options are phrased in proportional form (X% reduced damage taken, Y% less damage taken, etc.) -z flat damage is very, very rare.

Check the sheets out to see what I'm saying, assuming no one has decided to play with the Public version (or you can just plug in different AR values in the top left blue cell).

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Goldarm5 wrote:

Im well aware how lightning coil and phys reduction work.


Lightning Coil increases the % phys reduction, because phys reduction is based on the raw phys dmg taken and lightning coil makes the hit smaller, just like you said. But if you take less raw phys dmg your increased % phys reduction applies to a lesser amount. If you relate that increased phys reduction back to the whole hit you will notice that your armour mitigates less dmg of the whole hit then it would have done without the lightning coil.

and this is relevant to what exactly?

it certainly doesnt prove this...

" The only scenario where LC has a synergy with armour if you manage to get 90% phys reduction (with Lightning Coil) and more than 90% lightning res"

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Goldarm5 wrote:

Lightning Coil increases the % phys reduction, because phys reduction is based on the raw phys dmg taken and lightning coil makes the hit smaller, just like you said. But if you take less raw phys dmg your increased % phys reduction applies to a lesser amount. If you relate that increased phys reduction back to the whole hit you will notice that your armour mitigates less dmg of the whole hit then it would have done without the lightning coil.

Well, I see what you mean here but the lightning part is really irrelevant to the whole synergy thing, you get a higher physical reduction percentage to the part armor still applies to so the synergy is there. What happens to the lightning part and what kind of effect damage splitting has on your defenses overall is a different story, that has nothing to do with armor calculation anymore.

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Vipermagi wrote:

'least, I think that's what Goldarm is talking about :)

Yes, that's what I understood.

I was just saying there's a synergy regardless, it doesn't start at percentage this or that. The resulting damage reduction amount from armor when you equip LC will always be higher, it will never reduce its performance even if the final result is unfavorable.

You guys know your stuff and the reason that discussion is going on is simply that the expressions used arent standardized. So we are in a sense all correct, but have to clearly state what case is meant by out expressions.

What bugs me about saying lightning coil has a synergy with armour are newer players. Espacially in this game players sometimes have the wildest ideas how certain things function and just pick up unspecified statements. Also regarding math I would guess there are a lot of people who dont bother to calculate anything non trivial themselves.

So if a new player was told that Lightning Coil synergyses with armour, what does he think then? Before I actually did calculations on that matter I thought it would be good to get a lightning coil if I stack armour. But in reality lightning coil gets worse the more armour/phys reduction you have to the point where on some builds lightning coil is straight up worse than a rare armour chest for phys reduction.

Since you all are pretty active here on the forum I guess you know what I mean.

Don't worry, the game has capped resists against that, a newcomer is very unlikely to build something that will fizz with LC and by the time he does he will know better... hopefully :)