Over 430 threads discussing labyrinth problems with over 1040 posters in support DONE!!!!!

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Albinosaurus wrote:

You are making the same mistake that many before you have--confusing difficulty for being the issue, and not just that players hate the content, especially given all the nonsensical restrictions and artificial forms of difficulty. The Lab doesn't challenge your builds, it cheeses them. That's why people hate it. If we want to play Frogger, we will, but that's not what we come to PoE for.


I don't think you can trust the "player numbers have gone up" thing you keep referencing (that I haven't seen anywhere), because they always do that at the start of a fresh league. The more damning metric is how fast those numbers went back down, and they definitely have.

The only numbers I know are these. http://steamcharts.com/app/238960#All

Player numbers are actually pretty complicated. Although I agree with Albinosaurus's summary. The horrible labyrinth came out in very early March. The numbers definitely drop off quicker than the drop off rate of the previous releases. Warnings: it is difficult to compare the prophecy release to the previous releases because the graph is at a weekly point rate for the right end of the graph and monthly for the rest of the graph. This fact can be verified by doing a mouse look over the graph. Also, the March release was buggy with quality issues which would also drive a sharper drop off slope. The player number statement had to be based on the peak which was higher.

Hating the content is too vague. I hate a lot of act 4, but I don't post complaints about it. I just do it and move on. I've been doing the normal lab when I'm in mid cruel, the cruel lab when I'm in mid merciless, and the merc lab when I'm like level 77+. Doesn't really matter if I like the lab or not. It's not a very big part of the game and if you are over leveled it doesn't take very long to get through. I did the endgame lab for the first time ever last night at level 90. I wasn't in a hurry to do it because the ascendency points are like a bonus to me. We played the whole last league with only 6 points being available, so it's not a very good argument saying the last 2 points are not optional.

For the list of complaints regarding labyrinth, it's well documented in spoiler section "Lab Issues Breakdown" in the OP https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1609216

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Turtledove wrote:

For the list of complaints regarding labyrinth, it's well documented in spoiler section "Lab Issues Breakdown" in the OP https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1609216

You mean the summary I made a few pages back where the complaints were either:

Hate traps
Hate boss fight
Technical issues?

The post above mine you were quoting a post talking about lab hatred. That's what I was basing my post on.

I fail to comprehend how people can find the lab hard to do..
Running around with 4.2k hp, barely feeling the traps. They're tedious at best.

But it's a part of the game, and I don't mind it being there.

The uber lab is essentially a 5chaos tier 8-ish map, with the odds of giving you several times that investment + an enchant for doing it.

Hell, even Merc lab can have good currency outcomes, and it's frikken free to run..

If you don't like this type of thing, why are you even here?
The game is all about farming and maximizing your potential, and/or trading to make profits.
We also have the theorycrafters, but even they need their currencies to test stuff..

Why do people always want the easy way out?.. ERRMAGEERD i gotta do this 3 times???
Yes.. you do have to spend 15-20minutes of your life, 3 times in a video game to get power beyond what is reasonable..
(15-20 minutes being the average newplayer time i would guess, not an accurate number by any means, nor do I have any facts to back this up.)

You spend far more time completing the same content throughout the 3 difficulties, so why aren't we seeing more posts about that?

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Turtledove wrote:

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Albinosaurus wrote:

You are making the same mistake that many before you have--confusing difficulty for being the issue, and not just that players hate the content, especially given all the nonsensical restrictions and artificial forms of difficulty. The Lab doesn't challenge your builds, it cheeses them. That's why people hate it. If we want to play Frogger, we will, but that's not what we come to PoE for.


I don't think you can trust the "player numbers have gone up" thing you keep referencing (that I haven't seen anywhere), because they always do that at the start of a fresh league. The more damning metric is how fast those numbers went back down, and they definitely have.

The only numbers I know are these. http://steamcharts.com/app/238960#All

Player numbers are actually pretty complicated. Although I agree with Albinosaurus's summary. The horrible labyrinth came out in very early March. The numbers definitely drop off quicker than the drop off rate of the previous releases. Warnings: it is difficult to compare the prophecy release to the previous releases because the graph is at a weekly point rate for the right end of the graph and monthly for the rest of the graph. This fact can be verified by doing a mouse look over the graph. Also, the March release was buggy with quality issues which would also drive a sharper drop off slope. The player number statement had to be based on the peak which was higher.

No, its called, full retard mode Perandus league giving out freebies ended and the players who never had the intent to keep playing and wanted free stuff got what they wanted and dipped. It had absolutely nothing to do with labyrinth, stop implying it does because it doesnt.

Love how people neglect that Perandus was going on in march.

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mark1030 wrote:

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Turtledove wrote:

For the list of complaints regarding labyrinth, it's well documented in spoiler section "Lab Issues Breakdown" in the OP https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1609216

You mean the summary I made a few pages back where the complaints were either:

Hate traps
Hate boss fight
Technical issues?

The post above mine you were quoting a post talking about lab hatred. That's what I was basing my post on.

Sorry no, I'd consider "hate boss fight" a noob issue not really what we're talking about here. Actually Izaro is lots of fun but I can't really do that battle for fun because it's not worth the horrible trap gameplay to get to him, at least for me. "Technical issues" are still there but it's not nearly as significant now as at the much more buggy release time.

@sxxnx lab being hard is not the real issue either. While it can be much more difficult for builds without life regen or high movement speed, the main problem is that trap gameplay is boring and tedious.

Here's the section that I was referring to.

a) Objections to the trap gameplay per se. If you think traps of this nature don't belong in PoE because it is too harsh a departure from the existing gameplay, if you think traps of this nature don't belong in any game that is a D2 successor, if you think traps of this nature don't belong in any game subject to network hiccups, or if you think traps of this nature don't belong with a mouse+keyboard control scheme, your objection probably fits in this category.

b) Objections to the non-optional nature of the content. If you think AC points make this content a de facto mandatory part of the game, and you think it should be optional to the same extent other non-expansion additions to the game are optional, your objection probably fits in this category.

c) Objections to the reward structure. If you run the labyrinth despite hating it, believe that content should be intrinsically fun, your objection probably fits in this category.

d) Objections to GGG's approach and implementation. If you think a divided, toxic community is an unhealthy community, and that the labyrinth as it is currently implemented is causing exactly that, your objection probably fits in this category.
-This specific one is very crucial and somewhat new part to why the labyrinth as it is currently causes discord. Might not seem like a big issue, but dividing the community to that point only causes problems.

e) Objection to the difficulty of the traps and/or labyrinth. If you think the traps and/or Izaro encounters are too difficult and should be nerfed, your objection probably fits in this category.
-Mostly an issue relative to new players and the problems they have with the labyrinth. It might not be a big one but its definitely there

But all those "separate" complaints are the same complaint. Would anybody complain about ascendency points gated behind the lab if they didn't dislike something about playing in the lab? Would anybody complain about reward structure if they didn't dislike something about playing in the lab? Would anybody complain about difficulty or traps or anything else on your list if they liked the lab? All your complaints boil down to one thing, and that's a dislike of playing in the lab. You're trying to make it fancier than it really is.

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If you don't like this type of thing, why are you even here?
The game is all about farming and maximizing your potential, and/or trading to make profits.
We also have the theorycrafters, but even they need their currencies to test stuff..

Why do people always want the easy way out?.. ERRMAGEERD i gotta do this 3 times???

We do like to kill stuff and min/max our characters. It's funny though, that our attempts to min/max our characters have no influence on the trap mechanics. The traps cheese through your builds stats. Furthermore, the trap gameplay is a completely different genre then the classic poe gameplay. That's what we dont like.

And no, we are not asking for an easy way. We made alot of suggestions that are hard for the player, but perfectly in line with the classic gameplay.

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AceNightfire wrote:

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If you don't like this type of thing, why are you even here?
The game is all about farming and maximizing your potential, and/or trading to make profits.
We also have the theorycrafters, but even they need their currencies to test stuff..

Why do people always want the easy way out?.. ERRMAGEERD i gotta do this 3 times???

We do like to kill stuff and min/max our characters. It's funny though, that our attempts to min/max our characters have no influence on the trap mechanics. The traps cheese through your builds stats. Furthermore, the trap gameplay is a completely different genre then the classic poe gameplay. That's what we dont like.

And no, we are not asking for an easy way. We made alot of suggestions that are hard for the player, but perfectly in line with the classic gameplay.

The problem with this statement though bro, is this isnt a finished product, you cant say what does or doesnt belong in "the original" game because the game itself is under constant development and it isnt a finished product.

Thats like saying that CB where you took 10 minutes to kill one pack and had the shittiest gear imaginable at all times is "classic path of exile" and soo nothing currently belongs in the game.

Its a very flawed argument. If path of exile has a predecessor title it would be an argument that could hold ground but it doesnt. Youre trying to use an argument that only works for games that have had previous titles.