Chris: You are Wrong about Red Maps.

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Holy shit Sara went fucking ham here.

Meh if he's gonna lead the conversation off with "players are fucking retards," then what has to be said will be said.

I did like how the logic was used "if you have a steady flow of red maps you'd run them."





















It's almost like that's one of the core issues of Reds vs. Gorges or something.

There should always be incentive to run higher maps all the time. It should always be better than running lower ones. Revert xp nerf then do this.

1% IIQ, 1% rarity, and 2% packsize for a tier 1-3. 0.5% for a guaranteed unique
1% IIQ, 2% rarity, and 4% packsize for a tier 4-6. 1% for a guaranteed unique
2% IIQ, 4% rarity, and 8% packsize for a tier 7-9. 2% for a guaranteed unique
3% IIQ, 6% rarity, and 12% packsize for a tier 10-12. 3% for a guaranteed unique
4% IIQ, 8% rarity, and 16% packsize for a tier 13-14. 5% for a guaranteed unique
6% IIQ, 12% rarity, and 24% packsize for a tier 15. 10% for a guaranteed unique.

If I had a steady supply of reds I would run them. But I enjoy playing varied maps, and can't stand the "lets just run 20 gorges today" mentality. I run what I got, be it crematoriums, academies, springs, whatever. Fact is, I only have like 10-15 red maps or something. I have almost that many in every tier 11, probably only excluding precincts. From a pure xp perspective I think plateau is probably the best map to run atm. Running 20 plateaus sounds pretty boring to me too.

Regarding the OPs point, I do think that higher level maps should be the top experience per hour not just per map. It is unfortunate that layout is making lower level maps more efficient, but not all that surprising. GGG wants people to not feel like they have to run red maps and for them to essentially be challenge content.

I agree Ghoul. It's more fun to run a variety how anyone can just grind same map over and over is a mystery.

Another key difference is the number of "roadblock" affixes that can roll between mid/high tier maps.
Affixes that wholly negate builds are bullshit imo. Affixes should represent an obstacle to overcome (something you can progress your character past), not to avoid. Mid-tier maps have much less of a problem in this regard.
Unfortunately this issue is pretty much dead in the water, so I will reserve further comment until the 2.4.0 expansion.

just 2 nitpicks about the op:

1.) accusing chris of "not playing his own game" and "having no clue about his own game" are top arguments for being heard!

i don't know much people with a 10 to 14 hour day who can play games at all, i can hardly manage to play 3 hours per day given a 8 to 10 hour job.
and you're not really assuming chris is leveling a char to red maps during work?

they have the charts and statistics, they can lookup all or individual player's progresses based on instances played the most, claiming they're unable to evaluate that is hard stuff.


2.) chris claimed that red maps are the best way to get xp per map if you can afford them, which is true. your arguments are gorges and plateau are the best way to get xp per hour if you're short on currency which is also right.

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eventually you got it totally wrong on how a game works: the game masters set the rules and players react to them, it's not the other way around.


and they should start probating players who bring up this "whiteknight" shit, it seriously pisses me off. players who see things from the game point of view aren't "kissing ggg's ass", they see the whole story in difference to other players who just have a more personal point of view. and there is nothing wrong with both views.

Yes, Chris has been horrifically wrong about his own game. Hell, it was a mix of that EXP nerf and how laggy and poorly-performing the game had gotten that drove me to effectively quit; I didn't make a Prophecy character, and I still haven't bothered to actually finish getting all the map trials yet.

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vio wrote:

1.) accusing chris of "not playing his own game" and "having no clue about his own game" are top arguments for being heard!

Meet Mr. Strawman. A conclusion is *not* an argument.

The arguments were presented fully in the OP. Just because you can't debunk them (because they're mathematically true!) doesn't mean they don't count. Sorry, but your confirmation bias is not a strong argument.

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vio wrote:

2.) chris claimed that red maps are the best way to get xp per map if you can afford them, which is true. your arguments are gorges and plateau are the best way to get xp per hour if you're short on currency which is also right.

Hello Mr. Strawman #2. No, Plateau is still a quicker per hour NO MATTER YOUR CURRENCY. If you can afford to spam 1,000 chaos per red map, you can afford it on a plateau, with the *added* advantage of lower risk, because those suffixes will be weaker! (so less risk of EXP loss/losing your HC character)

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vio wrote:

and they should start probating players who bring up this "whiteknight" shit, it seriously pisses me off.

I detect MASSIVE concentrations of salt in this sector, captain. You DO realize just what level of maturity it makes it look like you have when you complain and ask GGG to ban people that disagree with you, just for pointing things out, right?

what i was trying to say: of course he's not nolifing his own game on endgame maps. nothing strawman about that.

and i was not calling for "banning players".

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vio wrote:

2.) chris claimed that red maps are the best way to get xp per map if you can afford them, which is true. your arguments are gorges and plateau are the best way to get xp per hour if you're short on currency which is also right.

but isn't this the whole point?
stats say that red maps provide more xp than yellows.
in reality its vice-versa because what matters is xp/hour.

this is something you can only know if you play the game yourself or listen to those who do.

knowing what kind of time commitment you need to even get there, i can confidentially say that only VERY few players with a job and family/GF even get there.

but one thing bothers me and i remember a similar statement from qarl in the closed 2.0 beta.
they really think people are not doing red maps because they are hard (to play) whereas in reality they are hard to even get. i really don't know why they keep telling us that bullcrap.

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vio wrote:

and i was not calling for "banning players".

Um...

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vio wrote:

and they should start probating players

"Probating" and "banning" are the same thing. Only difference is duration.