It's time for preleveled/preascended characters to enter the shop or be made available somehow.

The conversation started with the OP, and as ideas were discussed back and forth, the nature of the suggestion and how GGG might approach the issue changed. Then some clown comes along, doesn't read anything, responds only to the OP, and acts like his is the post worth caring about.

Kids these days... That's so far outside of even the most basic forum etiquette, logic, argumentation, etc that it's nothing more than simple derailment.

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Albinosaurus wrote:

The conversation started with the OP, and as ideas were discussed back and forth, the nature of the suggestion and how GGG might approach the issue changed. Then some clown comes along, doesn't read anything, responds only to the OP, and acts like his is the post worth caring about.

Kids these days... That's so far outside of even the most basic forum etiquette, logic, argumentation, etc that it's nothing more than simple derailment.

Yeah get off my lawn and all that stuff.


But idk, I don't feel like a lot of people level 7 different class characters in every league, so idk how to even continue to discussion about unlocking knowing that.

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Sa_Re wrote:

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AceNightfire wrote:

End of discussion

I don't think you got an idea how silly this sounds (in general). Too bad the mods won't let me flame such things as they deserve. :P

You should read the post again ^^

I didn't mean it that way. I just tried to copy Albinosaurus who thinks he decides of what the people have to discuss and what not and he's doing that in a very unpolite provoking way.

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Albinosaurus wrote:

The conversation started with the OP, and as ideas were discussed back and forth, the nature of the suggestion and how GGG might approach the issue changed. Then some clown comes along, doesn't read anything, responds only to the OP, and acts like his is the post worth caring about.

Kids these days... That's so far outside of even the most basic forum etiquette, logic, argumentation, etc that it's nothing more than simple derailment.

I am expecting any minute now for you to take your baseball and go home.

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goetzjam wrote:

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Albinosaurus wrote:

The conversation started with the OP, and as ideas were discussed back and forth, the nature of the suggestion and how GGG might approach the issue changed. Then some clown comes along, doesn't read anything, responds only to the OP, and acts like his is the post worth caring about.

Kids these days... That's so far outside of even the most basic forum etiquette, logic, argumentation, etc that it's nothing more than simple derailment.

Yeah get off my lawn and all that stuff.


But idk, I don't feel like a lot of people level 7 different class characters in every league, so idk how to even continue to discussion about unlocking knowing that.

I'm about to start my 5th this league. I have 4 now 90. 87,85 and 77. I have 0 issue with starting over, and find it more fun to watch my builds gain slowly in power as I level them. I by no means think my playstyle is the end all be all of poe, but I do think that it does lend credence to not everyone being bored with how the leveling process works. GGG could definatly do some things to make the process more exciting for more players, I just don't think giving away 60 levels for 0 effort is the way to go about it.

If you had been keeping up with the conversation, you would know that it wasn't "for zero effort" at all. In fact, we were discussing an option that actually takes a lot of effort.

Just because you don't mind the leveling, doesn't mean everyone else is fine with it. If you are fine with it, this isn't even about you, and it doesn't effect you.

See the problem with this is, what would a pre-built viper strike toon look like? Would they go the honest route and just make him a pre-built corpse? Or a pre built town only character?

Maybe a pre-built clown looking guy because jokes are about all he would be useful for.

See thing here is they would suddenly have to be honest about build power levels, because nobody will pay the same price for a viper striker as they would a flameblast or blade fall character.

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Albinosaurus wrote:

If you had been keeping up with the conversation, you would know that it wasn't "for zero effort" at all. In fact, we were discussing an option that actually takes a lot of effort.

Not everyone has time to read a thread with 20+ pages on the fly. Some of us joined the conversation when it was already going for some days. So the best we can do is read the OP post and give our answer to that (because that's the most important thing: Giving your opinion on the idea of the OP). If the discussion has already reached a point, where the original idea of the OP is already completely discarded, it may be wise to start a new thread with the most liked idea as the OP post. Then it is less likely that people "derail" the on-going discussion.

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Albinosaurus wrote:

Just because you don't mind the leveling, doesn't mean everyone else is fine with it. If you are fine with it, this isn't even about you, and it doesn't effect you.

And just because you don't mind pre-leveled characters, it doesn't mean everyone else is fine with pre-leveled characters. If you are fine with it, this isn't even about you, and it doesn't effect you.

Same logic... Again you try to undermine other peoples opinions. He isn't the only one who thinks that pre-leveled characters is toxic for the game in many ways.

Some arguments:
- Pre-leveled characters have access to highlevel maps much sooner. This means, most people will directly start with mapping. This leads to more high-level item drops and this effects the economy (more items available = prices will go down and make some items worthless). This can already be seen thanks to prophecy, where unique drops like crazy. Most uniques can be obtained for 1alc - 1c while many of these cost way more in standard HC.
- Some builds are quite weak in early game and this lets people skip the hard leveling part quite easily. If someone decides to play a build that starts off weak, he should also face the consequences and have a hard time leveling in low level areas. There's a reason why builds exist(ed) that require you to respec some points when reaching a certain level, so that your build is viable for early game (at least if you plan to take on the bosses yourself and not paying for a rush/kill).
- If GGG accepts this, players will demand even more. We had threads already where people asked for free-respec options. So if GGG introduces pre-leveled characters, players will start whining about new convinience options (free or p2w doesn't matter much). The game will completely turn casual at some point
- GGG also must ensure that players stick with the game for a certain amount of time. Lets take an example: I have 5 different builds in mind and I can play like 2-3 hours per day. So to make these 5 characters to at least lvl 80, it will probably take me a month, maybe even more. But if I can start at lvl 60, it will probably only take me a week to get them all to 80 (at least if I have the currency to buy decent equipment). But even with equipment 10c worth you can make it to lvl 80 quite easily. THat means I save like 3 weeks of playing. And then? Now I have played my builds and maybe take a rest from PoE, because I tried out what I wanted to do. The early game is a good way for GGG to ensure the players have to spend some time at least. Not everyone easily goes to lvl 80 in just a day like the pro gamers.
- If GGG introduces this, it kinda forces players who hate pre-leveled characters to do the same if they want to compete with other players (in terms of leveling characters and building up a good amount of items/currency).

So you can't say it wouldn't effect anyone if GGG introduces this as an optional feature, because it would. That's why I said the only way to effectively implement this is for GGG to create a third standard League with pre-leveled characters and maybe free-respec as an option. This would be a league for people who want a fast-paced experience without "wasting" time in low-level areas. They could go all out and try what they want AND then it really wouldn't effect players in Softcore-Hardcore as much. So I don't see why this wouldn't be a solution, since the only thing that would happen is a split up of the community, but GGG already did that when they introduced Soft- and Hardcore Leagues and new Leagues every few month. So another league shouldnt be a problem in my opinion.