Concerns about Scion balance after 2.3

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sidtherat wrote:

scion is playable. some just want free ride of OP stuff. i have already one character that works best as scion in 2.3 and maybe (just maybe as im not into fancy builds) ill come up with more

if you needed a 'free leech' from Scion to make a playable build then the problem is more 'you' than 'the scion'

Compare Ascendant with any other ascendancy class.

And cry in a corner, because any class is OP as F, and you're not. Toss in 8 points, cry even more. It's all about this.

I don't really care if I'll need to stick a life leech gem into my gear.
It's just sad that it makes no sense to make scion builds if any other class is far more superior.

ofc i wont share it because what do i gain from doing so?

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sidtherat wrote:

ofc i wont share it because what do i gain from doing so?

Spoiler

is this your only profile? because with characters lvl <80 you do not have enough experience to really compare classes and provide feedback. if you have another account - fair enough but if you dont... it might sound 'elitist' but it is what it is: repeating hearsay 'evidence' is just spreading lies in most cases.

Figures.

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VanguardUa wrote:

It's just sad that it makes no sense to make scion builds if any other class is far more superior.

Mind if I take a look @ your "works best as scion" character and melt your dreams?

For general builds, usually, but if you want to make something that is somewhat off key it may not be the case, or at least it wouldn't be 'far' superior. Sure, such builds aren't powerful and maybe don't make much sense but they're still valid concepts and Scion plays to their advantage with tree location and diverse bonuses.

I can maybe supply two characters that work good as a scion (no DeadAssZerker taken).

First one is Katrina, a COMK hybrid with crown of eyes and high AoE cyclone. Scion can easily snatch most of the AoE and spell damage on the tree, which is kinda required if you want to make CoE worth the trouble. Also, two of her ascendancies provide near-perma fortify, 4% reduced damage taken and 8% reduced ele damage taken, 5% elemental penetration, a bit of increased damage and extra points to cover for her globetrotting. I don't think another char would make as much sense.

The other one is a myolner max blocker (that I admittedly still level), extra stats help a bunch, she gets a good amount of block from gladiator and guardian, some spell block, a few other minor bonuses and as much as 9 extra points which are very useful in hunting down those block passives. Spell block and a bit of block is the only thing on a regular Gladiator that would work and Guardian doesn't have much else to offer either.

Now, don't take this wrong, I do think many of her nodes could be much, much better
https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1665689
However, she isn't entirely useless, you can still pull off some entertaining shit with her even if she is weaker than others point-for-point.

It is overnerfed in my opinion.

I was trying to make few builds around it, and nothing comes out that is even on pair with proper ascendancy. Esspecially having new 8 points in mind.

I know I aint rollin' Scion this league.

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raics wrote:

However, she isn't entirely useless, you can still pull off some entertaining shit with her even if she is weaker than others point-for-point.

I agree on what you've said, that's the reason why I'll keep playing Scion - because it is fun.

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VanguardUa wrote:

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raics wrote:

However, she isn't entirely useless, you can still pull off some entertaining shit with her even if she is weaker than others point-for-point.

I agree on what you've said, that's the reason why I'll keep playing Scion - because it is fun.

The way i see it, PoE has no difficulty setting but you can still play it like it has an invisible one:
Do you wanna play on easy mode? Play any ranged build.
Do you wanna play on medium? Play any melee build.
Do you wanna play on hard? Play melee Ascendant.

I am gonna go for hard mode in the next league :)

I think Scion should have gotten the Slayer treatment on the non blatantly op nodes. She was even nerfed as the only class with easy access to a lot of jewels (the grand spectrum gem already got a nerf). As it stands, it is really hard to make her as strong as the other classes.

I don't think it's as bad as some people make it sound here. I may be biased, because Scion has been my favorite and most played class in the past, whether the meta favored her or not, so I might be fooling myself into thinking she'll be just fine in 2.3.

Ascendant is in tough spot balance wise, because the slightest nudge can make her seem either too powerful or too weak. For example, it's no surprise she was a popular pick for spellcasting builds in 2.2, due to how convenient the unconditional life leech of her Berserker notable was, how effortless it was not to worry about life sustain. Is the nerf breaking those builds in 2.3 though? Life leech against packs of monsters will still be functionally the same, albeit weaker, provided you kill anything at least every 4 seconds. Against isolated, tough single enemies, you could merely manually cast Warlord's Mark (lasts 9.8 seconds at level 20) for 2% leech - a small price to pay. A nerf, unquestionably, but not a complete destruction.

Someone pointed out earlier in this thread that the Ascendant lacks the flavor of other ascendancy classes or any defining trait, which is fine to me. Her mastery of the passive tree and ability to jump to another class start is her defining trait. That was her selling point back when the class was revealed, except you had to forego one ascendancy notable in 2.2 to pick a Path of [Class] notable, an inefficient trade. Now you won't have to sacrifice anything.

My first character in 2.3 will most likely be an Ascendant. I can allow myself to go deep into the Marauder and Duelist areas for defensive and life nodes, then jump to the Shadow area and grab all the efficient damage clusters, cutting a dozen points of mostly filler, traversal nodes. Couldn't I achieve a better, more powerful character with another class start? Maybe. But I get to decide what kind of build I want to make. That, I suggest, is the real freedom and power of being an Ascendant in 2.3.

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Rockstopper wrote:

Against isolated, tough single enemies, you could merely manually cast Warlord's Mark (lasts 9.8 seconds at level 20) for 2% leech - a small price to pay.

That won't work for curse immune monsters, and bosses (hexproof maps). Also unique monsters have less duration for curses. In theory it's a good idea - in practice - it's a terrible one. Standing and casting a curse when you should've been dodging attacks and/or doing dps is not a small price. It can cost life of your character in HC. So life leech gem is a must have now. Also reflect maps. I didn't done the math but I think it won't be enough with 1% to not instarip yourself with some dps build. But then again, nobody runs them without leech gem.

I guess there's no workaround about this for caster builds. As for archer\melee builds I'd rather take leech wheel instead now and have other ascendancy than berserker.