Concerns about Scion balance after 2.3

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dudiobugtron wrote:

ES Scion that doesn't need to path all the way to Witch start to get those ES nodes seems pretty good.

yeah... if you're not already building a caster :P

sidtherat said

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i do not remember seeing you guys complaining about actual Berserker's life leech node. you know (you probably dont, as you dont taint yourself with melee but still) that current (2.2) Berserker ascendancy life leech node is CONDITIONAL?

it didnt trigger any of you when introduced. but the Scion's one does?

entire MELEE class had to cope with this for 3 months and it was 'ok' but suddenly some unjust perk is taken away from casters and the sky is falling? hypocrisy guys..

were not the balance team, i specced one rf bm maruader which i then didnt play since essence worm seemed to dear in standard. Hence i really had no comment, scion deserved a nerf not a node which ppl look at and say why bother.

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Fhark wrote:

sidtherat said

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i do not remember seeing you guys complaining about actual Berserker's life leech node. you know (you probably dont, as you dont taint yourself with melee but still) that current (2.2) Berserker ascendancy life leech node is CONDITIONAL?

it didnt trigger any of you when introduced. but the Scion's one does?

entire MELEE class had to cope with this for 3 months and it was 'ok' but suddenly some unjust perk is taken away from casters and the sky is falling? hypocrisy guys..

were not the balance team, i specced one rf bm maruader which i then didnt play since essence worm seemed to dear in standard. Hence i really had no comment, scion deserved a nerf not a node which ppl look at and say why bother.

In case you haven't been paying attention...

Just about all of Scion's nodes are "why bother".

Also, with savage hit being changed to 15%, Doedre's Elixir combined with -60% chaos res = trigger savage hit at will.

there is no point in playing a scion, all the other classes are superior

you choose scion only if you dont have enough res so you can pick some res nodes below its start, else overall it's inferior

the start from another character is completely useless imo, the only good start could be the witch, but ascendancy witch is just meh...

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Not quite; lowlife attack builds like KB wander and ST were also really good with it. Generic caster builds also benefitted greatly from the global leech from the Berserker mini-ascendancy. Agree with your overall sentiment though.

There are better choices than Scion to do that KB wander or ST. Champion, Trickster, Deadeye, Assassin, are all better at this. It was really only Spark that Scion excels at.

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These kinds of off-the-wall builds are what Scion is supposed to be about. Essentially, goddess of the gaps that requires getting very creative with the tree. If you want to do a build that another class could feasibly do, then Scion just isn't for you.

No, Scion is not supposed to be about off the wall builds, none of the characters are supposed to be like that. Prior to Ascendancy was that the case? Please don't kid yourself here.
When Ascendancy came out, I stopped playing Scion after trying her out, because the class is bad, their build choices were severely limited. Other classes were just better. And I wasn't inclined to play Spark.

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i do not remember seeing you guys complaining about actual Berserker's life leech node. you know (you probably dont, as you dont taint yourself with melee but still) that current (2.2) Berserker ascendancy life leech node is CONDITIONAL?

Scion only gets 2 major nodes compared to 3 major nodes a class gets. I hope you aren't just comparing 1 major node with a scion's major node. At least compare the set with her set.
Berserker's conditional life leech, Pain Reaver, not the Cloak of Savagery one is bad, yes. But that would be up to Berserker players to complain about yes? Like you were complaining, yes?

It is really the same reason why you complained about the Marauder classes, because you likely play those more often than others. Scion class is bad with this new change, plain and simple. There is absolutely no reason to not just play another class.

When I made Scion on Ascendancy, I did not care about Scion-Berserker at all. The only subclass I cared about was Deadeye. Any other class was just meh. Then, I died and never rerolled a Scion. Because they are bad, since they don't have many good build choices, unless you feel like gimping yourself.

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InAshesTheyShallReap wrote:

there is no point in playing a scion, all the other classes are superior

you choose scion only if you dont have enough res so you can pick some res nodes below its start, else overall it's inferior

the start from another character is completely useless imo, the only good start could be the witch, but ascendancy witch is just meh...

Again, as I just showed you with my little CoCspray build (which is more or less the same as it ever was, now you just have to tap an Atziri flask every so often), you have to build around the fact that you now will have a second starting node. AKA whatever build you do with Scion, you need to make sure it takes advantage of the fact that it has two starting points. EG maybe you want to go with a non-crit spark build, so you go up to templar and witch, while scaling damage from ranger? Here's an example off the top of my head:

https://www.pathofexile.com/passive-skill-tree/AAAABAABAABeAdED7gQHBLMFtQguCdkRDxhWGY4aOBzcHb4dwh8CIFkj9iRvJy8o-ipbLX0wcTB8MtEzhzWSNsU31DpCOlg62DrhOw1Bh0M2RUdFnUbXS3hNkk3jUUdS7FNSVcZWSGZUaHRo8nGFcg959ntufEt9dX6vgpuCx4PbhXuNGY19jb-PGpBVlG-UoJZ0lyGaO5rgoSKiAKJAo4qmV6avpwismK_rsUK1hbc-uJO748BmwXzBtMLsxKLKRsy3037UI9V11abYJNhN2L3ZX9pi2rndjN2o4BLhc-Kt6-7sOO087T_tg-4O71Dveu_r8B_yRfT4-ej-Cv6P_ro=

Bandits: Oak, kill, kill.

Ascendancies: Pathfinder, Elementalist.

You get 5 jewels, more than 200% life, a bunch of chance to shock from tree (I believe 15%), and still manage to pick up phase acro and the 50% pierce from the tree.

6L:

Spark, faster casting, echo, pierce, increased projectile speed, life leech.

Again, if you're going Scion, you now have to think about what sort of cool cross-tree builds you can come up with that can use a particular ascendancy. Maybe taking gladiator from duelist while you start there and path down to testudo while scaling a spell and running with rathpith + cybil's paw, and you're a massive tank?

Again, you gotta think cross-tree.

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Starxsword wrote:

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i do not remember seeing you guys complaining about actual Berserker's life leech node. you know (you probably dont, as you dont taint yourself with melee but still) that current (2.2) Berserker ascendancy life leech node is CONDITIONAL?

Scion only gets 2 major nodes compared to 3 major nodes a class gets. I hope you aren't just comparing 1 major node with a scion's major node. At least compare the set with her set.
Berserker's conditional life leech, Pain Reaver, not the Cloak of Savagery one is bad, yes. But that would be up to Berserker players to complain about yes? Like you were complaining, yes?

It is really the same reason why you complained about the Marauder classes, because you likely play those more often than others. Scion class is bad with this new change, plain and simple. There is absolutely no reason to not just play another class.

When I made Scion on Ascendancy, I did not care about Scion-Berserker at all. The only subclass I cared about was Deadeye. Any other class was just meh. Then, I died and never rerolled a Scion. Because they are bad, since they don't have many good build choices, unless you feel like gimping yourself.

actually i play pretty much every spec (except pseudo-summoners like SRS and i have never made a full EA character)

and i know one thing. some (not all) people complaining about this 'unbelievable' hit to their spellcasters would be amazed just how EASIER it is to play spellcaster than melee build. this Scion nerf is targeted at spellcasters - true. but it is targeted there for a reason - it is a braindead easy to play spellcasters with this node (and will be when Berserker Iron Will meta in 2.3 settles). i have a FIREBALL caster build that relies on Blasphemy+Warlords (and as i kill offscreen i rarely leech anyway) that is just click-click-click to victory, no risk when stuff burns 2 screens away. compare that with melee guys and youll see.

Scion is not worthless. it is just - like when introduced - not a beginners class. nodes she has are good but just - no longer - better than dedicated classes' nodes. if you come up with a build that can benefit synergy between two classes - Scion is better. if you want to play a Deadeye as a Scion - you are not going to be successful

btw - to put my point across - people crying about 'Scion pierce nerf' are so bad that they forgot that there is a unique jewel (starting one) that gives 15% pierce. suddenly the nerf is not so bad anymore (95% pierce or 105% with drillneck. this nerf changes NOTHING). but to know that one has to spend some time learning stuff.

you're right, but don't hold your breath. there'll be some kinda fix... in a couple of MONTHS... maybe. :)
that's how it usually goes. it took them 2 fucking months to put a 60% modifier on ES for traps, so LL/CI/EB/hybrid etc. could attempt Lab without [Removed by support]. lol. just pathetic.

GGG don't give a fuck about their game no more, not in the way they did 3 years ago. lost their passion and determination. it's become easy mode casual shit, [Removed by support]. now they just wanna sell MTX and sit back.

RIP PoE 2013-2016

#MakePoEGreatAgain

you had troubles doing lab as CI and yet you say that game is easy?

you know that people - me included - were doing lab fast runs as CI few days after the patch hit and i wouldnt know that 'CI has a problem' if not some bad-at-CI players creating 'the sky is falling posts'?

[Removed by support]

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Qarl wrote:

Environmental traps in the labyrinth now calculate a player's effective life differently for determining damage. This was previously the total of a player's maximum life and Energy Shield. Now Energy Shield counts as 60% of its value for this purpose. Only Energy Shield covering life is counted. This was determined to be the best ratio applicable to the wide variety of Energy Shield based builds that exist.

[Removed by support]
First off I'm not CI I had a special LL build which was completely raped by traps due to how calculations worked before(well still do, until patch). AND I play HC temp league. I dealt with it but it was hard and nervewrecking, which would be fine if it were like that across the board but it wasn't. I did have a Life build char also and it was infinitely easier as that, big difference.
You play Standard League only, which is perfectly fine but don't talk if you haven't a clue. And you haven't got a clue, unless you attempted Lab in HC as LL - then you'd perhaps realize the issue.

PS: and yes, the game IS fucking easy OVERALL, compared to what it used to be 2-3 years ago. It has nothing to do with one SPECIFIC issue with Lab traps