Fairly disappointed in the microtransactions.

Hi there,

I would like to start off by saying I really love this game. This is in fact one of the best games I have played in a LONG time.

So here are my thoughts on the micro transactions how they exist right now.

1. It is completely silly to sell a 5 dollar pack and give 46 coins. There is nothing in the store out of 5 coin increments, which really feels like an insult to my intelligence. I really don't believe that credit card fees cause you to have to take away 4 coins from what the pack really should be. This basically abandons small increment sales for most people. Look at TF2/Dota2; Valve makes most of its money on those games from selling $2.49 keys.

2. Why do I have to buy coins and then use them to buy stuff? I don't really understand this. People don't want to have to waste money buying a bundle of coins and have to have extra coins left over.

3. Why do I get 24 slots to make characters but only 4 stash tabs? I have never played a game that let you make even close to 24 character slots, and this game seems to have the lowest amount of stash space of any game I have ever played. (Other than D2 maybe)

4. Stash tabs are ridiculous. If I want to buy 6 normal stash tabs, why can't I just pay 15 bucks for them, why do I have to be stuck between a 10 and 20 dollar coin bundle? You are basically forcing me to buy upgraded shop tabs or basic shop tabs and other cosmetics.

My suggestions:
a. Get rid of coins and just use a checkout or wallet system. (Maybe even talk to Valve about using their system)

b. Give us like 6-8 stash tabs instead of the current 4 and possibly even remove some of the character slots.

c. Let me buy 5-10 stash tabs for 10-15 bucks and not have to buy other cosmetics (I'm not even saying that I won't buy cosmetics, just saying that I would rather not be forced into buying them with leftover points). In fact if stash tabs were $1-$2 a piece I would probably buy 20-40 of them right now.

I understand a model like your current one works really well for games like League of Legends; you have to realize the player-base of League of Legends is 12 year old kids with 20 dollar a month allowances. As a non-pubescent player I would like to easily decide what I want, examine the price and if it suits me buy it.

For now I'll just keep playing the game without buying anything and hopefully in the future it will seem a little simpler/cheaper/better for me to support this game which I wholeheartedly love.

Thanks,

Cranium
Last edited by Crnm on February 18, 2013 5:25 AM
"
Crnm wrote:


I'll just keep playing the game without buying anything...this game which I wholeheartedly love.



I am still baffled by statements like this. The microtransactions are virtually a bonus if you wholeheartedly love the game, aren't they? Support because you love the game and want it to succeed, and care not for the shinies that come with.

...Or admit, perhaps, that your priorities are a little different. That although you enjoy playing the game for free, you do not in fact love it -- certainly not enough to help support it.

Now, if the case were that you legitimately couldn't afford to support, then I'd have neither quibble nor contention. There were many during Closed Beta who were in such a place, and they often received keys one way or another. Those of us who supported at a level somewhat above the baseline did so for many reasons, but one of them has to be maintaining a balance, and making the game accessible to all.

But I find that which I have quoted from you somewhat contradictory. Love is not about merely taking -- it is always about giving as well.

So find another word and wait for the microtransactions to more closely fit what you want, or embrace the love, accept the microtransactions are completely voluntary and yes, far from ideal, but choose them anyway. For love.

...Oh, and we've had very long and ultimately fruitless threads about the pricing of GGGold in the past, so I'd rather this not become another one. Then we'd have to dig those up and lock this one.



The alpha and omega of Diamond supporters.

Ten very lucky people are due to become the envy of all Exiles...

The Custom Avatar Art Gallery.
"
Charan wrote:
"
Crnm wrote:


I'll just keep playing the game without buying anything...this game which I wholeheartedly love.



I am still baffled by statements like this. The microtransactions are virtually a bonus if you wholeheartedly love the game, aren't they? Support because you love the game and want it to succeed, and care not for the shinies that come with.

...Or admit, perhaps, that your priorities are a little different. That although you enjoy playing the game for free, you do not in fact love it -- certainly not enough to help support it.

Now, if the case were that you legitimately couldn't afford to support, then I'd have neither quibble nor contention. There were many during Closed Beta who were in such a place, and they often received keys one way or another. Those of us who supported at a level somewhat above the baseline did so for many reasons, but one of them has to be maintaining a balance, and making the game accessible to all.

But I find that which I have quoted from you somewhat contradictory. Love is not about merely taking -- it is always about giving as well.

So find another word and wait for the microtransactions to more closely fit what you want, or embrace the love, accept the microtransactions are completely voluntary and yes, far from ideal, but choose them anyway. For love.

...Oh, and we've had very long and ultimately fruitless threads about the pricing of GGGold in the past, so I'd rather this not become another one. Then we'd have to dig those up and lock this one.





I don't think a successful business model is one where you hope to make money and grow your game by hoping that the players like it so much that they want to support it by donating money. That is always an aspect of micro-transactions, but generally it is an afterthought to the fact that most of your customers will want something functional in the game or want something to look cool/set them apart from everyone else. I by no means am saying that I want the game to be play to win.

I would rather have bought the game for 20 dollars (or donated the money to the game developers) than pay 20 dollars for 6 stash tabs.

Just because I like the game doesn't mean I want to immediately spend money on it.

"
Charan wrote:
So find another word and wait for the microtransactions to more closely fit what you want, or embrace the love, accept the microtransactions are completely voluntary and yes, far from ideal, but choose them anyway. For love.


Well as I said I will just continue to play with my money in my pocket until there is something I want to buy at a price I deem reasonable.

Its up to you whether or not to lock the thread, but at the end of the day if a company doesn't want simple feedback on their services and pricing they are doing themselves a disservice.
Last edited by Crnm on February 18, 2013 5:21 AM
"
Crnm wrote:
Hi there,

I would like to start off by saying I really love this game. This is in fact one of the best games I have played in a LONG time.

So here are my thoughts on the micro transactions how they exist right now.

1. It is completely silly to sell a 5 dollar pack and give 46 coins. There is nothing in the store out of 5 coin increments, which really feels like an insult to my intelligence. I really don't believe that credit card fees cause you to have to take away 4 coins from what the pack really should be. This basically abandons small increment sales for most people. Look at TF2/Dota2; Valve makes most of its money on those games from selling $2.49 keys.

2. Why do I have to buy coins and then use them to buy stuff? I don't really understand this. People don't want to have to waste money buying a bundle of coins and have to have extra coins left over.

3. Why do I get 24 slots to make characters but only 4 stash tabs? I have never played a game that let you make even close to 24 character slots, and this game seems to have the lowest amount of stash space of any game I have ever played. (Other than D2 maybe)

4. Stash tabs are ridiculous. If I want to buy 6 normal stash tabs, why can't I just pay 15 bucks for them, why do I have to be stuck between a 10 and 20 dollar coin bundle? You are basically forcing me to buy upgraded shop tabs or basic shop tabs and other cosmetics.

My suggestions:
a. Get rid of coins and just use a checkout or wallet system. (Maybe even talk to Valve about using their system)

b. Give us like 6-8 stash tabs instead of the current 4 and possibly even remove some of the character slots.

c. Let me buy 5-10 stash tabs for 10-15 bucks and not have to buy other cosmetics (I'm not even saying that I won't buy cosmetics, just saying that I would rather not be forced into buying them with leftover points). In fact if stash tabs were $1-$2 a piece I would probably buy 20-40 of them right now.

I understand a model like your current one works really well for games like League of Legends; you have to realize the player-base of League of Legends is 12 year old kids with 20 dollar a month allowances. As a non-pubescent player I would like to easily decide what I want, examine the price and if it suits me buy it.

For now I'll just keep playing the game without buying anything and hopefully in the future it will seem a little simpler/cheaper/better for me to support this game which I wholeheartedly love.

Thanks,

Cranium


1. The reason for this is explained by the dev's. the smaller purchases, if allocated as you suggest, would end up costing them money due to the processing fee. Also, generally speaking, it is cheaper to buy in bulk. That is a pretty standard economic principle. So, by paying a little extra you save money in the long run.

2. see one.

3.. the reason for limited stash tabs but lots of character slots? It forces you to buy stash tabs.

4. see one.
.......................................

I am confused about your sentiment that you would rather just donate 20 dollars. If you want to just donate 20 dollars.. then do so. You don't need to use the points that are allocated to you, you can save them until something comes along that maybe you would actually find worthwhile.
"the premier Action RPG for hardcore gamers."
-GGG

Happy hunting/fishing
Last edited by Charan on February 18, 2013 5:30 AM
Absolutely no intention of locking this thread. You articulated your stance very clearly and although it does repeat points made in other, older threads, I think you've provided plenty of grounds for meaningful discourse.

"
Crnm wrote:
I don't think a successful business model is one where you hope to make money and grow your game by hoping that the players like it so much that they want to support it by donating money. That is always an aspect of micro-transactions, but generally it is an afterthought to the fact that most of your customers will want something functional in the game or want something to look cool/set them apart from everyone else. I by no means am saying that I want the game to be play to win.


Unfortunately for something to be functional in the game and purchasable with cash, it must be pay to win by GGG's definition thereof. Stash tabs are the glaring exception and have been sufficiently explained elsewhere.

And there are plenty of microtransactions so far that 'look cool/set them apart from everyone else.' Admittedly, 'look cool' is purely subjective but the setting apart isn't.

"
Crnm wrote:
I would rather have bought the game for 20 dollars (or donated the money to the game developers) than pay 20 dollars for 6 stash tabs.


If you would rather have bought the game for $20 instead of paying $20 and getting some stash tabs, then pay the $20 and don't buy the stash tabs. Your intention of paying will have been realised and you won't have those unnecessary extra stash tabs that you wouldn't have gotten had you just paid $20 for the game.

Are you basically saying that you'd have paid $20 just for this game if you'd had no choice, but now that you have a choice, you will not, even though that $20 would also result in some handy in-game features?

I'm sorry, in this age where 'pay what you want' is so successful, I fail to understand your attitude.
The alpha and omega of Diamond supporters.

Ten very lucky people are due to become the envy of all Exiles...

The Custom Avatar Art Gallery.
On a side note to what Wittgenstein just posted:

you can sure that GGG will have many, many more microtransactions in the future and that many are in the works right now.

your points will not be wasted!

Best of luck and enjoy PoE :)
"
Charan wrote:
I fail to understand your attitude.


What I'm basically saying is:

I like this game. In fact, I like this game enough that I feel like looking at the possible things I could buy, both for my own benefit (as expressed in the set me apart/functional part of my post) and to support the game. I then looked at the stuff in the shop (though I mostly looked at the stash/character slot part because I think I would be most inclined to buy something along those lines) and I thought, hmmmm, I could definitely see myself buying some stash tabs. Then I spent quite a bit of time looking at the different coin prices and then looking at the different coin bundles, trying to figure out how many stash tabs I will use/the cost of each stash tab and getting slightly frustrated and not wanting to go through on my purchase. I then made this thread because rather than just closing the window there and going back to playing, I thought someone in the development team of the game might actually want to hear my story (and possibly the story/opinions of others [hence the thread]) of how I almost bought something and why I chose not to.

"
1. The reason for this is explained by the dev's. the smaller purchases, if allocated as you suggest, would end up costing them money due to the processing fee.


In my experience playing other F2P games generally coins are not subtracted due to fees, they are added to the higher coin packages to mitigate this. For example, they could have a $5 pack with 50 coins, a $10 pack with 120 coins, a 20% pack with %250 coins, etc. Looking at the scale of the prices in the shop I definitely do not feel like I am rewarded for buying more coins, but punished for buying less.

Even if you completely disagree with my logic and you wouldn't operate that way with your money or with a business under your control, part of making money is dealing with people who have different values and ideals when it comes to spending money and it is still important to listen to their feedback and make adjustments as needed or else you're letting money walk out the door.

I will eventually buy 6 stash tabs. If I have to pay $20 to get them I will and by that it also means that there is a high chance I will end up with 6 fancy tabs instead of the basic ones, just because I don't really care for cosmetics so I will use the points for something.

This is where I get a little confused: If stash tabs cost next to nothing to be made (1GB of storage on Amazon S3 costs a penny a month), and the developers want to use revenue from selling them to finance their salaries, wouldn't it be best to sell as many as they could at the highest price they could? If not, the developers actually believe stash tabs are pay to win. In some respects (which I won't get into) stash tabs are pay to win.

I think I posted enough to get my feedback and point across, so I will check on the thread again in the morning and see what everyone else thinks.
Last edited by Crnm on February 18, 2013 6:43 AM
"
Crnm wrote:



In my experience playing other F2P games generally coins are not subtracted due to fees, they are added to the higher coin packages to mitigate this. For example, they could have a $5 pack with 50 coins, a $10 pack with 120 coins, a 20% pack with %250 coins, etc. Looking at the scale of the prices in the shop I definitely do not feel like I am rewarded for buying more coins, but punished for buying less.


OK Here is Your best suggestion, but in fairness to GGG lets make the 5$ buy 40 coins (6 less) 10$ buy 90 etc
"

I don't think a successful business model is one where you hope to make money and grow your game by hoping that the players like it so much that they want to support it by donating money.

The whole Open Source world is based on that. And well, it seems to work.

PoE has a business model similar to League of Legends - it works there - why shouldn't it work here.

I have paid way more money for PoE than for all other games combined in the last 10 years. Why? Because i love the game, i love the budiness model and i love how GGG interacts with the community. And i will continue to buy stuff - even if i don't need it.

And well, stash tabs are not pay to win. Or at least not even close to buying champions in League of Legends. As soon as someone gets rich because of many stash tabs, GGG is going to nerf some recipes again.

"

In my experience playing other F2P games generally coins are not subtracted due to fees, they are added to the higher coin packages to mitigate this.

And how is that different to the current system? If you think 10s about it you will see there is no difference. It just "looks" different.
I think the reason they charge so much is because
they need to pay the magic trolls to give us stash tabs.

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