SET FREE THE ASCENDANCY POINTS (or rework the lab) [New ascension methods/lab rework ideas]

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Fruz wrote:

GGG has data, we don't (and that includes you, of course ), period.

But you, of course, know that only "minority" of players do not consider lab fun.
of course...
Here is the secret. More important than the size of the sample, is the distribution in the sample.
And because any player has a forum account, we can assume that forum members are good enough to reach some conclusions (in so basic and important matters like AC and Lab)

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Xavathos wrote:

Besides, where would they go? What "Trial" did you have in mind to replace the Lab that is equally challenging?

Here you are
"Trial" = fight with Izaro
You go to the labyrinth if you want to discover fabled treasures of Izaro/Chitus
Simple

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Pyrokar wrote:

But it's kinda offtopic here, or maybe not.

Unless someone can shed some light on whether Dominus ran the lab or not, I mean, I can call myself an olympics champion, but...

It was probably supposed to be a joke of some sort, by Piety, most likely. She played the underling to Dominus, shown him a bit of blood magic and convinced him that he rules all realms known to man and beyond from his junkheap tower.

Definitely offtopic @Regulator:
I never saw posts as long that say so little. You might need to present your thought somewhere important one day so take this as a well-meaning critique. In a nutshell, if you can't keep on target you can try deciding on your points up front and sticking to them, it seems as if you're starting on an idea and then go where the keyboard takes you. Honestly, it isn't working for you, not many can do that well.

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Nishrek wrote:

Here you are
"Trial" = fight with Izaro
You go to the labyrinth if you want to discover fabled treasures of Izaro/Chitus
Simple

So, what did the first ascendants die to then? There was no Izaro inside at the time. You can't have a labyrinth with only a boss fight that didn't even exist. I think they messed up a bit in the beta on that account, though I suppose it might have been some other boss and everyone had to do all four segments so they had to deal with traps at some point.

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Nishrek wrote:

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Xavathos wrote:

Besides, where would they go? What "Trial" did you have in mind to replace the Lab that is equally challenging?

Here you are
"Trial" = fight with Izaro
You go to the labyrinth if you want to discover fabled treasures of Izaro/Chitus
Simple

No. Any alternative version that is easier / less time consuming, cannot happen because it would invalidate the current version of Ascension. People will always play only the easiest <whatever> that gets them <result>.

I see that this thread is still filled with cries for "we want just to have fun"!! That's arbitrary. For some, fun means exploding hordes of monsters that offer no resistance or thought (not pointing at anyone in particular), for others this is exactly the opposite of fun.

Lab offers a good enough resistance to instant gratification (compared to the overall easiness of this game). You can still die, even with your mirrored gear char, if you don't pay attention to traps. And as such it is a good addition to the game, exactly because it's different, and not just the 100th version of some map + boss that gets exploded in 0.03 seconds. Its precisely this resistance to instant gratification, that gives you the feeling of achievement when you complete the Lab and get your Asc points and why traps are needed. People that want to ruin this experience, can already pay a carry and get over it with ease.

I hear that the first two Labs have been shortened, which is good news. Those were a bit too long, for the current power of the char that enters them at the same level. Ascending your char to 6 points (=more than enough to complete everything in the game) will now become even easier. There is no need to "free the ascendancy points" and traps are crucial for the right experience the Lab is supposed to deliver. Replacing Lab with <more of the same> would make the game less fun and less diverse.

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Nishrek wrote:

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Fruz wrote:

GGG has data, we don't (and that includes you, of course ), period.

But you, of course, know that only "minority" of players do not consider lab fun.
of course...[...]

They have infinitely more information than you do, and that's a fact.
And they have said, several times, that you are a vocal minority.

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raics wrote:

So, what did the first ascendants die to then?

Most of what the haters say here has not be thought through at all, not been considered from more than one biased angle most of the time ( note that I am not talking of other posters, that are less extreme, and are not fully driven by their emotion and personal wishes, and can be the source of interesting conversations/suggestions ).
Of course such a thing would not fit the lore, and it would obviously make the whole thing much easier (lol@"we don't want it easier !!", again).

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morbo wrote:

Lab offers a good enough resistance to instant gratification (compared to the overall easiness of this game). You can still die, even with your mirrored gear char, if you don't pay attention to traps. And as such it is a good addition to the game, exactly because it's different, and not just the 100th version of some map + boss that gets exploded in 0.03 seconds. Its precisely this resistance to instant gratification, that gives you the feeling of achievement when you complete the Lab and get your Asc points and why traps are needed. People that want to ruin this experience, can already pay a carry and get over it with ease.

That is pretty well said, unfortunately, I don't think that it will "stop" the "we only want to have fun !!!"/"But it's so boring even thought it's so easy !!!" etc ....
:(

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Xavathos wrote:

<lots of stuff here>

I'm not worried about profitable. I don't make any currency from the Lab, never did. It's about having that wall between players and the power of Ascendancies to me.

Why are you so invested in this?

Challenge in the game matters. A non-challenging game is a borefest. But, there's no particular reason why defining your character has to involve a specific kind of challenge in any given game. Some make you "earn" character progression through questing specifically aimed at how your character is progressing, and some don't. I don't think you can claim that all the good games are only in either one of those two categories.

Vocal minority could reasonably apply to both sides because the vocal adjective indicates an extremely small percentage of the base, probably less than 1%, I'd guess.

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Turtledove wrote:

Vocal minority could reasonably apply to both sides because the vocal adjective indicates an extremely small percentage of the base, probably less than 1%, I'd guess.

So what ?
GGG only needs to now that a minor group of people are complaining and check their player's statistics.


And let's not forget that people not enjoying something are much more likely to be vocal tham people than have no problem with it ...

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Fruz wrote:

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Turtledove wrote:

Vocal minority could reasonably apply to both sides because the vocal adjective indicates an extremely small percentage of the base, probably less than 1%, I'd guess.

So what ?

Frequently and perhaps even in your post above, there is a reference to Chris calling people disliking lab a "vocal minority", and that being used as some kind of proof that people disliking lab is a minority. I'm just saying that is not necessarily the case. It can also simply mean that the people that are vocal are a minority of the base.

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raics wrote:

So, what did the first ascendants die to then? There was no Izaro inside at the time. You can't have a labyrinth with only a boss fight that didn't even exist. I think they messed up a bit in the beta on that account, though I suppose it might have been some other boss and everyone had to do all four segments so they had to deal with traps at some point.

As you said yourself. The fact that we are still running lab three times makes a mess from the lore/story. They will have to straighten this out. So they will change some lore parts anyway, some may be heavily altered.

BTW Below is a panacea for inconsistent lore problems. It will solve all lore problems. 100% guaranteed or you will get your money back!
It is even used by GGG!


BTW
Not being negatively vocal about the lab =/= liking the lab
Running the lab for AC =/= liking the lab

Also I would like to know whats statistics would show that majority of people like the lab

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Nishrek wrote:

Also I would like to know whats statistics would show that majority of people like the lab

There is no reliable statistic data currently that would show how much is lab liked or hated, it would be possible to gather but it would take a more of their time than such info is worth. They probably extrapolate it based on number of complaints and some other factors accounting for the worst possible scaling scenario. For instance, they have the info how many accounts played PoE a lot and stopped around that time with few or no ascended characters, they know how many people are ascending or farming and how much an average player spent in the league on before and after the lab introduction, all of those are a factor but they don't say much on their own.

I assume they have a competent data analyst on board that can make some sense out of it all, can't run an online game without one.