SET FREE THE ASCENDANCY POINTS (or rework the lab) [New ascension methods/lab rework ideas]

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miljan wrote:

Nice that this topic is still active. Keep it alive boys, until they fix the problem.

Agreed, as someone who loves to roll many characters every league I'm sick of running lab for the AP. United we stand, I hope there is an answer in 2.4

This thread is never going away ever. 187 pages of hope

I was thinking of another potential way to get ascendancy points outside traps. Maybe it wouldn't be considered significantly different enough to be mentioned in the OP but the idea would be to go through the Izaro 3 part battle twice. So, maybe IV with battling Izaro double or just double the Izaro battles without requiring Malachai? My thought is making the ascendancy points harder to get but also the Izaro battle is lots of fun in my opinion. I wouldn't mind doing it more except for the horrible trap crap to get there.

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Prebornfetus wrote:

This thread is never going away ever. 187 pages of hope

I am amazed considering the low numbers of this season this post is still going.

Psst no one wants to make a second char and do the lab 8 times. I hated doing it 3 before quitting.

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Zalhan2 wrote:

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Prebornfetus wrote:

This thread is never going away ever. 187 pages of hope

I am amazed considering the low numbers of this season this post is still going.

Psst no one wants to make a second char and do the lab 8 times. I hated doing it 3 before quitting.

That's pretty much why I've barely played this season. I was super active the first couple weeks, but it's basically dead to me for now. I just post on the forums in the hopes that they will read why and think about ways to fix it. No matter what the trolls here will say about minority/majority or silent/vocal, or any other irrelevant shit to try to disqualify your opinion, lots of people share my sentiment, and some of them are doing the same thing. I think GGG has the numbers to officially call this one a failure, and the worst part is that they might draw the wrong conclusion: It's not just because Prophecy is bad (though it needs a lot of refinement--it's because the game is no longer friendly to alts, and people had their fill of that shit during Perandus.

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Albinosaurus wrote:

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Zalhan2 wrote:

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Prebornfetus wrote:

This thread is never going away ever. 187 pages of hope

I am amazed considering the low numbers of this season this post is still going.

Psst no one wants to make a second char and do the lab 8 times. I hated doing it 3 before quitting.

That's pretty much why I've barely played this season. I was super active the first couple weeks, but it's basically dead to me for now. I just post on the forums in the hopes that they will read why and think about ways to fix it. No matter what the trolls here will say about minority/majority or silent/vocal, or any other irrelevant shit to try to disqualify your opinion, lots of people share my sentiment, and some of them are doing the same thing. I think GGG has the numbers to officially call this one a failure, and the worst part is that they might draw the wrong conclusion: It's not just because Prophecy is bad (though it needs a lot of refinement--it's because the game is no longer friendly to alts, and people had their fill of that shit during Perandus.

If Prophecy was the only reason people would play standard. Pretty much level 80-90 this season was the same as standard for me. But Lab makes playing any character unfun for me and some other people so we are quitting rather than make a second character.

I just created a post in GD about the fact that some times we have debates clouded by the fact that some play HC, some play SC, some play perm leagues, wrv, and for that reason often a SC player may not see as important why a non elite HC player has a problem with the Lab difficulty scaling, or a HC player may dismiss the complains SCs players have with the exp death penalty, and so on, with the permanent leagues.


I recon i used too many f words, that i compared GGGs success and arguments with another games from another companies and I may have been a little bit over the top while calling GGGs arguments and philosophies in as far they do not hold as consistent and true as they seem to believe when they use them to justify decisions that sometimes don't even make that much sense (hey, some users posted pretty solid arguments with math and shit that at least deserve to be taken seriously, but we all make mistakes, it may have been a little reckless to conclude that GGG has bad intentions, or that they are intentionally doing this or that, how could I know, right? my bad)


On top of that, there's another false conflict: most of us "lab haters", we want the asc points, but we don't care if the lab remains in the game and if behind the lab there's something that has value, as long as it's not as character defining as the asc points, lets be real, are. Or should be. So when people come to defend the Lab in fact most of us i believe, we can live we the Lab in the game, we don't want the game to be better for us and worse for them.



In the end, HC players have no real stake even if they are free to speak in the way Sc players feel about the way their league is going, and at the same time, SC players could totally recon that for non elite HC players the lab could be more of an issue given than starting again from the start of the Lab is not he same as starting again from lvl 1, without the gear.

On top of that both HC and SC players of different levels of skill and game play time, do not really have to lash out, as we do sometimes when another player from another category makes a suggestion that really does not affect our game experience at all if we take a breath and cool down a bit from our own frustrations with the game and try to empathize or simply let it go.




Fellow PoE players, there's a world where the Asc Points, are not a pain for a lot of players to obtain, while at the same time the Lab has a place for all those beautiful Lab runners to make even more currency given that less people would be force to do the runs.


And at the same time, if the normal Lab makes happy that group of people, then the more experienced players would not suffer at all from an easier game. You have cruel, you have merc, you have uber lab, you have maps, you have mega super duper bosses, and you have a whole hyped late game oriented patch. So I ask the elite, I ask the 1%, or anyone that thinks the Lab is fine, and everything is fine, what do you have in stake in this debate when you can go from normal to maps in 1 day.


If making low level content more user friendly does not affect the end game, which it does not, at all, why all the hate. You spend 15 mins in normal anyways, why do you care if i get my 2 or 4 asc points with less suffering if i'll never get the other 4, if you will get to maps and uber lab and 40 ach and everything else in 1 or 2 weeks, while I have fun with a char that has ascended and so i can just from that fact enjoy almost 3 times the amount of classes the game has to offer.


Streamers talk about the problems of yellow or red maps, while people that has problems with the normal lab fight with dudes that found a way around that by leveling to 60 or wrv. How on earth it can affect in a negative way to proper balance the difficulty of each lab level and free those asc points from a game play style not everyone likes, but some really enjoy and could be given instead another kind of reward.




There's probably no simple answer to all this, but the first source of saltiness comes from the ego and swag problems "those who could" have: they don't give a crap about normal, if they go as far as they go as fast as they say, move speed is probably more of a factor than the difficulty of the 3 acts content. They just enjoy digital brag so much they feed in the suffering of lesser players. They don't care about the community or the game, they just rather pay themselves for the servers if that means they can say they are the true hardcore gamers of the world. Those are the true vocal minority, or I really wish they are. If not, this game is screwd.


The second point that makes this a mess is the fact that GGG says little or nothing about most of these problems and has a long history of letting thing stay wrv they are or change wrv random thing that no one ever even saw coming while the game still has problems since the first time the game was played by a human. And this cause uncertainty and fear, and the idea that the problems of other groups of players are competing for the limited attention span GGG pays to the feedback. We need to make "our message through" first, more loudly, faster, and the other problems other players are bringing, even if they are not in real opposition, they could made "our problem" seem less important, maybe because of them, GGG won't change this now, and if they don't do it now, they won't do it never. Apply this logic to every group and you have a forum where every thread is a repeat o revamp of an old debate, and the same haters and lovers go at it again and again, over opinions and solutions don't even have any real effect most of the time for most of the groups involved.


And the last point where i maybe used some strong words in my last post, is the 820 / guild / market of runs / bosses / wrv. And the problem is simple. Give us a real solution to the problems and I don't care if by being a member of a guild i can get max lvl ultra enchants from day 4, or pay for a free boss kill on every encounter of the game. And don't tell me i have to trade, even tho i have premium tabs with the actual state of the system because of player interaction, as a requirement.

Don't tell me GGG is designing the game with the presumption that we all have to trade, that we all have 820 available, that we all are supposed to interact with each other, because half of those solutions are "not playing the game", and the other half, the client is not even remotely close to an acceptable level to be taken seriously.



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As an anecdote, in the last "state of the exile", i think, one of the streamers gave the argument against the automated trade / auction house like system, in the fact that the current economy is balanced around the fact that a large portion of the players don't trade, and that the effect of making trading part of the normal player experience would make the value of the items drop.

I have nothing against this fellow, i don't recall his name, it's not a comment against his person, but just take a moment to realize how fucked up his logic is. Or this games economy is.

This is 2016, and i want to believe this fellow does not have a solid economy formation, nor does he has internal information about the game numbers, because if that's the case, again, this game is screwd.

There's a logical contradiction between the fact that we are supposed to trade to play the game proper, which is often suggested by players with more experience to noobs having trouble in lesser difficulties, and the fact that we have something to gain by keeping the status quo where the richer get richer just cause they have the power of will to deal with this shadow of trade system that's worse that what you can find in games designed like 15 years ago.


This comment, made by this fellow, is the perfect example that in PoE knowledge is power, but not in the way GGG has said they want the players to be able to achieve (at least I hope so), this comment implies and represents how by the 820 runs, market manipulation, noob exploitation, and so on, a few make a lot of currency with knowledge that should be part of the "rulebook" of the game. The lost value, is the value a minority makes by ripping off the rest of the players, because they have the "how to" to achieve things that no one in good faith can argue represent any kind of merit.


The people that wants to derail everything that would make this shady trades unnecessary, are the one's making ez currency from the obscurity of the way the game works, and not from a clever idea about how to achieve something in a more efficient way.


If everyone could be a part of the market, I have no doubt most of the player base would have a better experience, players would try more builds, player retention would rise, at the cost of the bottom line in a digital currency of a few jerks.



So TL:DR, next time you are about to shit on someone, first check if what he's asking for affects you in any way, second check if you can give useful information and not just "you should just get to uber lab and then after 4 runs what you are asking for makes no sense", and third check if it affects you because it messes with some bullshit you are pulling off to get currency fast, but you know in any real open market economy game, you couldn't, or not even close at that rate, then, do whatever you want, but know, you are an asshole, you are everything that's wrong with this game, you are the reason we can't have nice things.



Peace out,

I'm not playing anymore until something new happens, I hope this thread keeps going, so we can really get to a middle ground, or at least some form of understanding (it would be nice to check the game in the future a see it got better in some way).

In the meantime, i was never someone no one will miss.

And for me it's time to CS GO!

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bummmb wrote:

Don't tell me GGG is designing the game with the presumption that we all have to trade, that we all have 820 available, that we all are supposed to interact with each other, because half of those solutions are "not playing the game", and the other half, the client is not even remotely close to an acceptable level to be taken seriously.

It does not fit your definition of "playing the game", fair enough.
However it seems to fit GGG's.
The economy is part of the balance with the RNG ( there would be no excitement dropping a kaom's chest if you are only playing CI char for example, etc .... ), so yes : the game is balanced around trading.
And if you do not like it, well it's too bad for you, honestly it won't just change now, it has always been like this.

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bummmb wrote:

The people that wants to derail everything that would make this shady trades unnecessary, are the one's making ez currency from the obscurity of the way the game works, and not from a clever idea about how to achieve something in a more efficient way.

Not everything in this game is about making currency, this is just obe big and ugly generalization.
Some other people don't care much about currency, just playing and salvaging loots, using some recipes to get some orbs and selling on the market or using the few good drops is already enough to have a nice gaming experience.
Nothing to do with "ez currency" as you say.

Having some uninformed people getting scammed will always happen to some extent, that is inevitable considering the number of items / possibilities etc ... that this game can offer.


And you would probably have more interesting discussions, or maybe end up having more impact by showing courtesy / politeness, especially in such a long post.

By the way, what are scared of, using a fake account to post ?

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bummmb wrote:

some times we have debates clouded by the fact that some play HC, some play SC, some play perm leagues

Also some trade aggressively for build-defining items and others play self-found.

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So when people come to defend the Lab in fact most of us i believe, we can live we the Lab in the game, we don't want the game to be better for us and worse for them.

Yup---I don't hear anyone wanting to take the Lab away from those who like it (or even those who profit from it).

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I ask the 1%, or anyone that thinks the Lab is fine, and everything is fine, what do you have in stake in this debate when you can go from normal to maps in 1 day.

Somewhat ironically, Chris justified the normal Lab by the desire to give those players who (made it past Brutus but) stopped playing the game after normal difficulty a proper experience of the Lab. Not sure, myself, that GGG was doing them any favors.

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Fruz wrote:

By the way, what are scared of, using a fake account to post ?

If it is a fake account, possibly s/he doesn't want to be subjected to yet more ad hominem attacks from Lab supporters?

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Fruz wrote:

And you would probably have more interesting discussions, or maybe end up having more impact by showing courtesy / politeness, especially in such a long post.

By the way, what are scared of, using a fake account to post ?

My irony meter just exploded.