SET FREE THE ASCENDANCY POINTS (or rework the lab) [New ascension methods/lab rework ideas]

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sidtherat wrote:

people will - no matter what - avoid any sort of challenge if possible. if it is impossible - they'll try to change the rules with 'petitions', 'feedback' or straight 'whining'

current lab is challenging and provides good, valuable rewards (points + level appropriate loot in large quantities) [yes, speedrunning it is also challenging - try to beat current top racers and not die in the process]


replacing it with something that can be chain-gorged is removing any challenge. 'map filled with monsters' is just free xp. there is no challenge to that. right-click to victory and dps-for-the-win. suggesting that is just hypocrisy. people disliking the lab need to man up and do it.

ill remind you what GGG said: 'some people do not like the lab, and im fine with that' (paraphrase, original can be found in State of Exile, Prophecy episode)

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You have 10k+ Armor? Fuck that! You have just as much Evasion? Fuck that! 6k Life? Fuck that! It doesn't really matter WHAT you play

ill just say that this shows that you know little about the traps and what works and what doesnt. all items you listed are false. build matters, gear matters, skills you use matter. but the best anti-trap defence is.. not getting hit by them. so the most important part of the lab is YOUR skill. if you suck at it (As youve said) - get better. it wont take you more than 20 minutes to understand the WHOOOOOLE 20 or so trap gauntlets in the lab. once you know it there is NO EXCUSE to getting hit by them. 'git gud'

I am better than good. Traps are still vomit inducing though. Now go look at some people's profiles.

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sidtherat wrote:

people will - no matter what - avoid any sort of challenge if possible. if it is impossible - they'll try to change the rules with 'petitions', 'feedback' or straight 'whining

Wrong. How many people do you think never beat Atziri? And are we seeing any petitions or 140 page threads to make Atziri easier? No. You know why? Because Atziri is real PoE content. It goes along with the classic PoE playstyle. I never did her myself, but I don't complain. There are 3 reasons for that:

1. I never had a character who could face Atziri, but I know that Atziri is for the real hardcore aRPG fans out there and it offers a super challanging classic playstyle battle which is super endgame.

2. Atziri doesn't offer me anything that is extremely important for my character customization

3. If I ever need a unique from Atziri, I can still buy it from those who can beat Atziri


And now lets think again: Wouldn't the same apply to the Lab, even if it hadn't the AC points? Lets take my 2 arguments from above. If the lab wouldn't have the AC points or if there would be an alternative way (more in line with the classic playstyle), then the Lab would still give you lots of treasures and the craftable mods. Like with Atziri, those 2 things are not super important for character customization AND people can sell the stuff from the lab to those who don't like the arcade playstyle. Furthermore, GGG could add some uniques you can ONLY get from the treasures boxes and Izaro, giving players who like the lab enough motivation to play the lab again. So instead of gating the AC points behind the lab, which you will only GET ONCE, they should add content to the labyrinth that motivates you to replay the labyrinth over and over again.

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sidtherat wrote:

people will - no matter what - avoid any sort of challenge if possible. if it is impossible - they'll try to change the rules with 'petitions', 'feedback' or straight 'whining'

In that case, perhaps GGG should prevent people from avoiding the challenge of HC by eliminating all the SC leagues and instituting a proper perma-HC-death. Of course if they did that, there might be a lot of 'whining' from those 'freeloading l2p' people who don't like HC, but they would deserve whatever they get. ;)

136 pages lol :)

Dear GGG just give 2 asc points for killing malachai and all topics can be closed ty.

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ShaUrley wrote:

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sidtherat wrote:

people will - no matter what - avoid any sort of challenge if possible. if it is impossible - they'll try to change the rules with 'petitions', 'feedback' or straight 'whining'

In that case, perhaps GGG should prevent people from avoiding the challenge of HC by eliminating all the SC leagues and instituting a proper perma-HC-death. Of course if they did that, there might be a lot of 'whining' from those 'freeloading l2p' people who don't like HC, but they would deserve whatever they get. ;)

Wow, though this sounds sarcastic, it's a pretty strong argument for alternative ways to get AC points. The argument against creating an alternative was that it would be extra work and that it probably wouldn't be worth the effort just to make a big part of the community happy. BUT there IS the standard league. They create 2 leagues (including races for both) every few month for HC and non-HC players so they put alot of work every few month just to please those who like HC and those who don't. Right now I don't see any reason why GGG shouldn't also think about pleasing those who don't like the arcade mode labyrinth if they also please those who don't like the hardcore-experience?

Kinda seems inconsequent now if they want to please many players on the one side (HC vs non-HC) but not on the other side (Arcade vs. Classic Playstyle).

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AceNightfire wrote:

...

... Like many said, it's an entire different game. Aside from the boss fight, the enemies in the lab are just "there" but not challanging. So the lab is built around the traps and they are supposed to kill you very quickly, complete independent from your character built! You have 10k+ Armor? Fuck that! You have just as much Evasion? Fuck that! 6k Life? Fuck that! It doesn't really matter WHAT you play. If merc lab had no monsters and no boss fight, you could even do it with a level 1 character (or low level, so that you can use some mobility skills), because traps dont care at all about your built or defensive stats. The only thing that helps a little bit is a very high life regeneration per second. But the Witch, Shadow and Ranger do not have much of those nodes close to them.

*cough*


I have a quick question: Is this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Action_role-playing_game an acceptable definition of 'arpg', and if not, how should it be properly defined?

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AceNightfire wrote:

Wow, though this sounds sarcastic

Sorry, guilty as charged. But (as an exclusively solo-self-found-HC player who has nothing against people who prefer to play SC, or trade, or play in a group) I'm just fed up with responses to those of us who don't like the lab along the lines of: "they want free stuff",or "they aren't willing to face a challenge", or...

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AceNightfire wrote:

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ShaUrley wrote:

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sidtherat wrote:

people will - no matter what - avoid any sort of challenge if possible. if it is impossible - they'll try to change the rules with 'petitions', 'feedback' or straight 'whining'

In that case, perhaps GGG should prevent people from avoiding the challenge of HC by eliminating all the SC leagues and instituting a proper perma-HC-death. Of course if they did that, there might be a lot of 'whining' from those 'freeloading l2p' people who don't like HC, but they would deserve whatever they get. ;)

Wow, though this sounds sarcastic, it's a pretty strong argument for alternative ways to get AC points. The argument against creating an alternative was that it would be extra work and that it probably wouldn't be worth the effort just to make a big part of the community happy. BUT there IS the standard league. They create 2 leagues (including races for both) every few month for HC and non-HC players so they put alot of work every few month just to please those who like HC and those who don't. Right now I don't see any reason why GGG shouldn't also think about pleasing those who don't like the arcade mode labyrinth if they also please those who don't like the hardcore-experience?

Kinda seems inconsequent now if they want to please many players on the one side (HC vs non-HC) but not on the other side (Arcade vs. Classic Playstyle).

You really thought that was a relative argument? They have to "work" to implement any solution? Isn't that a given? Isn't that their job? To work to create and fix a game?

Please...

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dickhole_mcghee wrote:

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AceNightfire wrote:

...

... Like many said, it's an entire different game. Aside from the boss fight, the enemies in the lab are just "there" but not challanging. So the lab is built around the traps and they are supposed to kill you very quickly, complete independent from your character built! You have 10k+ Armor? Fuck that! You have just as much Evasion? Fuck that! 6k Life? Fuck that! It doesn't really matter WHAT you play. If merc lab had no monsters and no boss fight, you could even do it with a level 1 character (or low level, so that you can use some mobility skills), because traps dont care at all about your built or defensive stats. The only thing that helps a little bit is a very high life regeneration per second. But the Witch, Shadow and Ranger do not have much of those nodes close to them.

*cough*


I have a quick question: Is this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Action_role-playing_game an acceptable definition of 'arpg', and if not, how should it be properly defined?

The definition doesn't matter so much. It's more about why PoE is played and what made it popular.

1. PoE is an aRPG

2. PoE is played because it offers Diablo-like gameplay and is closer to and better then Diablo 2 in many aspects (more character customization, more content etc.) compared to Diablo 3 (at lwast for many that's the case)

3. PoE is so popular, because it is (or was) what many people wished for Diablo 3. A deep character customization in a dark setting and fighting 100s of mobs


Diablo was never known for having complex traps puzzles and PoE wasn't either before Ascendency was released. Now GGG has decided to implement those trap features. Don't get us wrong, it's not like we have anything against traps. It's just the way those traps are implemented. In most aRPG, there are some scattered traps you can easily avoid and should only make it harder for you to actual fight enemies. But ascendencies focus is completely on the traps. It's not about fighting enemies, it's about dodging traps and learn the sequence the traps are following. Like many said: It's a completely different playstyle. While I agree that some may like the change in pace here, you can't demand that everyone likes it. And that's ok. But they shouldn't put the AC points, which are important for customization (like I said: That's what made PoE popular in the first place) behind this different playstyle. It's not fair to those who played PoE for years and contributed to the community and don't like this "new" game within PoE. They can keep the Lab as it is, no one wants to take it away. But the AC points should also be available in a classic (but challanging) way, like I suggested 3 pages or so ago.

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Pyrokar wrote:

You really thought that was a relative argument? They have to "work" to implement any solution? Isn't that a given? Isn't that their job? To work to create and fix a game?

Please...

It is their job and that's what I'm saying. But others here think that this "Time" would be wasted and the effort should be focused on new content. Obviously, this argument is kinda bad. It's like saying a company shouldn't fix bugs (bugs also make people unhappy) and should focus their ressources on adding new content. If something's wrong with the game, it should be fixed before they go on. That's how game-development should be. But the ones who are "Happy" with the Ascendency content are kinda selfish (imho) and think it's ok if a big part of the community is unhappy and therefore GGG should concentrate on new content.

I know AceNightfire. All i am saying is that you don't need to try and counter a non-argument. That's what they've been trying to do in this thread; find problems in every little thing we suggest that aren't problems at all. It's laughable.