Re-Rethinking Gold as a Currency

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Sickness wrote:

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lupasvasile wrote:

This thread, right here, proves the point that people are NEVER satisfied.

All we see on the "interwebs" is common complaints like: "why is this game such a clone of X game?", or "why can't we have an original game for once, or at least with some original features?"

When people do get their originality, they immediately change stance: "why is this game not using feature X like all other games, it was easier for my simple mind"

Response to above person: "well, you wanted something original so we/I provided"

And then all goes to hell from there.


Why, oh why, can't people just accept things for what they are? If you asked for a unique game and decided to play it, why want to change it into a clone of X game you're sick of already?

P.S had a great laugh reading some of the replies in this thread.

Your post fails because there are more than 1 person on the internet and also, no one has yet been able to name a game with a currency system like the OP suggested.

You misunderstood my point.

I simply meant that people are never satisfied. And Furthermore, they feel the need to complicate things that are easy enough to understand as they are.

And here I go, getting dragged in a discussion that leads nowhere. You'd think that after so much time spent on the internet, I'd have learnt that lesson >.>

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lupasvasile wrote:

You misunderstood my point.

I simply meant that people are never satisfied. And Furthermore, they feel the need to complicate things that are easy enough to understand as they are.

And here I go, getting dragged in a discussion that leads nowhere. You'd think that after so much time spent on the internet, I'd have learnt that lesson >.>

No I understand you, but it's a very common fallacy.
Just because you can't satisfy EVERYONE doesn't mean that people can't be satisfied.

If person A wants X and when he gets it person B complains about it, it doesn't mean that person A is not satisfied.

And your whole premise that the suggestion by the OP isn't original is just plain false.

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Sickness wrote:

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lupasvasile wrote:

You misunderstood my point.

I simply meant that people are never satisfied. And Furthermore, they feel the need to complicate things that are easy enough to understand as they are.

And here I go, getting dragged in a discussion that leads nowhere. You'd think that after so much time spent on the internet, I'd have learnt that lesson >.>

No I understand you, but it's a very common fallacy.
Just because you can't satisfy EVERYONE doesn't mean that people can't be satisfied.

If person A wants X and when he gets it person B complains about it, it doesn't mean that person A is not satisfied.

And your whole premise that the suggestion by the OP isn't original is just plain false.

I haven't posted in this thread because of what the OP said. So much circling around the same bush, or dead horse however you like it, simply made my brain tick so I posted the first thing that came to mind.

Personally I like the orb currency and would do just fine without gold. It just doesn't get into my head why people have trouble with it. Seem easy enough for me.

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sickness wrote:

You are simply wrong. Picking up obs with different names is every bit as repetitive as picking up different amounts of gold.

You have same possibility to find a large pile of gold as you have to find a rare orb. And their value is equal.

No, there are major differences between the two systems. You're equating every orb drop to a number that represents potential value, but the current orb system doesn't work like that at all. Sure, they all have relative drop rates, but they don't have relative values. The entire system is built around the core concept that X doesn't always equal 2Y.

When farming Orbs:
Armor Shard (Sweet, I was looking for a few of these!)
Augmentation (Don't need, will have to save up to trade.)
Transmutation (Don't need, will have to save up to trade.)
Chaos (Score!)
Augmentation (Don't need, will have to save up to trade.)
Jeweler's (I'll probably hold onto this in case I need it.)
Whetstone (Don't need, will have to save up to trade.)

Ok, I have a few orbs, let's find someone who will trade for these lower ones I don't want. *Requires effort and social interaction.*

When farming gold:
1 gold (Oh, look, some gold.)
2 gold (Oh, look, some gold.)
2 gold (Oh, look, some gold.)
12 gold (Oh, look, some gold.)
2 gold (Oh, look, some gold.)
8 gold (Oh, look, some gold.)
1 gold (Oh, look, some gold.)

Now I have a bunch of gold, let me go buy exactly what I need with absolutely no player interaction. *Requires... Farming.*

Regardless of the amount that drops at once, each unit of gold has equal value to the vendor. Therefore, the amount that drops is arbitrary in the long run and players will not care about the number, as long as it says "gold."

Yeah, there's no difference at all, especially in the social interaction aspect. [/sarcasm]

The current system is working, and will become easier over time as more intuitive features are added for trading. This is a unique aspect of PoE that would be entirely removed if there were any sort of uniform currency, thereby reducing a large part of PoE's unique identity in the game world. When new players start, they often immediately look for gold (or currency X). When they ask about gold and someone tells them there are consumable currency items that drop as loot, they generally get excited about the idea (from what I've seen). That sounds like a positive system to have.

Using gold from drops to buy improvements to your gear sounds just like Torchlight, Mythos, Hellgate, and any other game with an enchanting/augmenting NPC (there are many games with such).

That brings up another point that has yet to be discussed in this topic: If gold is used to buy orbs, what do we use to buy other items from NPC's? Gold? Orbs? I would assume gold, since it would be the uniform currency. There we go, another way it makes PoE like other games, another way it would have to become more like other gold systems in order to be useable as a uniform currency. Buying orbs from one vendor so you can buy a flask from another vendor is silly, right?

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lupasvasile wrote:

Personally I like the orb currency and would do just fine without gold. It just doesn't get into my head why people have trouble with it. Seem easy enough for me.

Ok take this scenario:

Player A has Transmutation Orbs and wants Alchemy Orbs
Player B has Exalted Orbs and wants Transmutation Orbs
Player C has Alchemy Orbs and wants Exalted Orbs

With gold as currency, they each sell what they have and buy what they want. Everyone gets what they want.

With a barter system, no trade occurs. Even though each has something another wants, none of their needs and wants match. None of them get what they want unless one of them is willing to become a middle-man and take the risk of trading for something they don't want with no guarantee that they'll be able to get what they do want eventually.

The more types of currency there are, the less likely it is that the person who has what you want will also want what you have, and the more difficult it is to trade with anyone.

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WhiteBoy88 wrote:

That brings up another point that has yet to be discussed in this topic: If gold is used to buy orbs, what do we use to buy other items from NPC's? Gold? Orbs? I would assume gold, since it would be the uniform currency. There we go, another way it makes PoE like other games, another way it would have to become more like other gold systems in order to be useable as a uniform currency. Buying orbs from one vendor so you can buy a flask from another vendor is silly, right?

People won't listen to you if you're going to insist you're right for arbitrary reasons. The devs are using a barter system because of specific advantages they've identified, not just to be "different". If you're not willing to address the specific advantages and disadvantages of each system then there's no point in discussing anything with you.

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Strill wrote:

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lupasvasile wrote:

Personally I like the orb currency and would do just fine without gold. It just doesn't get into my head why people have trouble with it. Seem easy enough for me.

Ok take this scenario:

Player A has Transmutation Orbs and wants Alchemy Orbs
Player B has Exalted Orbs and wants Transmutation Orbs
Player C has Alchemy Orbs and wants Exalted Orbs

With gold as currency, they each sell what they have and buy what they want. Everyone gets what they want.

With a barter system, no trade occurs. Even though each has something another wants, none of their needs and wants match. None of them get what they want unless one of them is willing to take the risk of trading for something they don't want with no guarantee that they'll be able to get what they do want.

The more types of currency there are, the less likely it is that the person who has what you want will also want what you have, and the more difficult it is to trade with anyone.

I was going to write a wall of text explaining why that is better than that, and so on. But I gave up, knowing that it would lead to a pointless discussion merry go round style.

My only concern is that people will get their wish and the barter system will be dropped. No game breaking deal but it saddens me when people go for boring overused systems instead of something more exciting.

And for the love of God, I know what the OP suggested and I know it has never been done before, but gold seems off in this game. (just to make it clear)

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Strill wrote:

People won't listen to you if you're going to insist you're right for arbitrary reasons. The devs are using a barter system because of specific advantages they've identified, not just to be "different". If you're not willing to address the specific advantages and disadvantages of each system then there's no point in discussing anything with you.

I'm not saying I'm right because of that. I'm just saying it would be an undesirable side effect of the proposed system. Isn't that what we're discussing here, why one system is more desirable than the other?

Having gold as the uniform currency means it would have to function as a truly uniform currency, not just a currency used to buy orbs. There are other vendors in the game that require currency. This is a valid concern, not an arbitrary point. You would have to make gold more like gold in other games and much less like the gold in the proposed system. This is a negative aspect of the proposed system.

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No, there are major differences between the two systems. You're equating every orb drop to a number that represents potential value, but the current orb system doesn't work like that at all. Sure, they all have relative drop rates, but they don't have relative values.

You couldn't be more wrong. Ofcourse the orbs have relative values!
An armor shard is worth less than a divine orb.
Exchange rates between all orbs will form automatically based on supply and demand.

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The entire system is built around the core concept that X doesn't always equal 2Y.

Hey! That concept is in the OPs suggested system! Cool, right?

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When farming Orbs:
Armor Shard (Sweet, I was looking for a few of these!)
Augmentation (Don't need, will have to save up to trade.)
Transmutation (Don't need, will have to save up to trade.)
Chaos (Score!)
Augmentation (Don't need, will have to save up to trade.)
Jeweler's (I'll probably hold onto this in case I need it.)
Whetstone (Don't need, will have to save up to trade.)

Ok, I have a few orbs, let's find someone who will trade for these lower ones I don't want. *Requires effort and social interaction.*

When farming gold:
1 gold (Oh, look, some gold.)
2 gold (Oh, look, some gold.)
2 gold (Oh, look, some gold.)
12 gold (Oh, look, some gold.)
2 gold (Oh, look, some gold.)
8 gold (Oh, look, some gold.)
1 gold (Oh, look, some gold.)

Now I have a bunch of gold, let me go buy exactly what I need with absolutely no player interaction. *Requires... Farming.*

LOL, talk about biased misrepresetation.

How on earth are you going to buy something form another player without player interaction??

Why does farming orbs not "require farming", but farming gold does. That's ridiculous. You can do better than this.

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Regardless of the amount that drops at once, each unit of gold has equal value to the vendor. Therefore, the amount that drops is arbitrary in the long run and players will not care about the number, as long as it says "gold."

That also means that as I can trade lesser orbs for higher orbs, it doesn't matter what orb I find, as long as it's an orb.

But you are talking nonsense. Ofcourse you will care about the amount that drops. Ofcourse you will care about what orb that drops.
A high amount will represent a rare orb.

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This is a unique aspect of PoE that would be entirely removed if there were any sort of uniform currency

If something is bad it doesn't matter how unique it is.
You can't defend something by saying how unique it is.
Argue the merits of the system, don't fall back to "it's unique so it can't change". It's pointless.

Everytime you are shown to be wrong you return to this absolutely ridiculous position.

You-"It's bad because it's a fiat currency!11!"
Me- "It's not a fiat currency, the gold have intrinsic vale"
You-"It's bad because it's not unique!11!"

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That brings up another point that has yet to be discussed in this topic: If gold is used to buy orbs, what do we use to buy other items from NPC's? Gold? Orbs? I would assume gold, since it would be the uniform currency. There we go, another way it makes PoE like other games, another way it would have to become more like other gold systems in order to be useable as a uniform currency.

Yes, NPC trading would become much simpler. But the principle would still be exactly the same.

It doesn't matter that it becomes more like other games.

Should they remove classes, skills, levels, hotkeys, HP, mana, inventory, 3d graphics etc etc just to be set apart than other games??
No, some things just makes sense.

They should not be trying to set the game apart from others with bad things, they should do it with good things!

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lupasvasile wrote:

I was going to write a wall of text explaining why that is better than that, and so on. But I gave up, knowing that it would lead to a pointless discussion merry go round style.

My only concern is that people will get their wish and the barter system will be dropped. No game breaking deal but it saddens me when people go for boring overused systems instead of something more exciting.

And for the love of God, I know what the OP suggested and I know it has never been done before, but gold seems off in this game. (just to make it clear)

Uniform currency is "Boring and overused"? LOL. Good one.

There is nothing inherently exciting about bartering.
If you prefer it then you can keep doing it. Most people won't, because they don't prefer it.

Are you so selfish that you completely ignore what most people want just so you can have your little excitment?