How should incinerate be rebalanced? Vote now
"excellent in-depth analysis backed up with supporting statistical data. | |
" If you insist. Incinerate is fine. There are currently more powerful skill/builds in the game. What's more, Incinerate is only one the best spells in the game currently because every other spell more powerful that it was nerfed to obsolescence. On top of this, 2.0 neutered self-cast spell casting. Arctic Armor is now complete crap. Leech was nerfed into the ground. Changes to Eldritch Battery and nerfing of Clarity have mana sustain impossible without either taking every mana regen node in the tree along with some increased mana nodes and +mana/mana regen on gear; or relying on gimmick Elreon Jewelry with a bit of mana cost reduction. Are you mapping this one-month? I am. No one I have mapped with uses Incinerate other than myself. And I'm now regretting it because I'm stuck with it. Self-casting spells is currently BS. Everyone is running circles around me... with far more powerful builds... you know, armies of minions, armies of SRS, double totems, Cyclone, Ice Crash... you know, the real OP skills. Incinerate pales in comparison. Leave it alone. Now, I'm not calling for nerfs. The other spells need buffed. And self-casting spells needs to be restored to some manner of usability, along with leech being improved... so people will quit bitching about casters running around with only totems and minions. | |
|
I think it is fine. Other stuff needs buffs. I rolled my first in the last leagues and it was quite strong, but not as strong as PA, or crit flame totem, or cyclone, or EK. It's not as strong as spork was in its heyday, it's not as strong as maxblock aegis tanks were. It's just good and cheap to gear. I like things that are cheap to gear.
Anarchy/Onslaught T shirt
Domination/Nemesis T shirt Tempest/War Bands T shirt | |
|
The whole "GGG nerfs everything" schtick is becoming a pet peeve with me. There's always the outcry that GGG just maliciously nerfs crap because it's popular, as opposed to because it being overtuned and obviously incompatible with their vision of the game.
MoM/EB in 1.3 was way powerful to the point that nobody cared that other things were actually quite usable. CWDT likewise obviously needed its nerf. Meanwhile, the skills that actually are usable are ignored by the playerbase. Flame totem? Buffed. Steadily so. Was okay in 1.3 and leaped to the top of the charts in 2.0. Arc? Slight buff owing to Wrath. A very pleasant experience with the exception of one major drawback. Glacial Cascade? About what it was. Freezing Pulse? Viable now. Ethereal Knives? Slight buff and viable but needs work. Flameblast? Probably still useable. Particularly with Anger. Shock nova? Buffed. Firestorm? Slight buff owing to Anger. That isn't to say that there aren't a lot of crappy spells. But that's neither here-nor-there for the Incinerate discussion. It's absurdly good for its supposed "drawbacks." Last edited by DeviantLightning on Oct 13, 2015, 7:33:36 PM
|
|
|
tl;dr (half-way through)
Almost every [Removed by Support] needs to divorce themselves from the logic that popular = op. Accessibility is the primary vector. Skill vs skill it is superior to most other other options. Ideally these gaps get smaller over time, but it seems to be apparent this is not GGG's agenda. 4L self-cast incinerate with mana flask. Carried me to a4m where I farmed Dried Lake until I could buy a tabula rasa and spec dual totem. 17.4k tooltip, 5.1k hp, fully overcapped resists. 36% movespeed. I clear fairly fast but I am very squishy (101 deaths; very yolo play style & mostly before maps). Haast and Na'em give me a lot of trouble, yet to die to Na'em though. My warbands SRS char felt better to play (mechanically superior in situations where totem incinerate is weak). IGN: Victory_Or_Sovngarde It's not a 13 week development cycle, it's a 13 week supporter-pack cycle. You can play any build you want, as long as it's the current meta. Last edited by Ashen_Shugar_IV on Oct 13, 2015, 10:24:47 PM
|
|
" faulty logic. alzheimers disease is fine, because there is cancer. cancer is fine because theres AIDS. right ? police brutality against blacks is fine because theres more black on black crime. right ? no, it isn't right, if you couldn't tell. other op skills are also op. but we're talking about incinerate here. " so once again, people have beef with meta because of what their expectations are " soon, very soon. Im at the end of a3m. you wanna see my gear ? this 4L destroyed everything the whole weekend I was leveling. it destroyed everything and anything. the only times I had to kite were 1)haast 2)>1 beyond boss 3)clusterfuck of possessed boss/invasion boss/warband leaders/beyond boss/pack of 15 magic guys/etc " cool story. I dont party up in poe tho " this goes back to our 'cancer is ok because AIDS is worse' hilariousness. I do not care what people you are running with are running- they clearly want to run op builds because they dont like the meta. people who always play op builds will always play op builds if people want to run the most efficient, low-cost builds that provide good survivability, then they want to play op builds. in a game with good balance, such standing out builds hurt the balance. | |
" like or not, but most popular builds are popular for a reason, and that reason is efficiency, cost in hardcore setting (streamers in new leagues) like I outlined earlier, these are exactly three pillars on which op builds stand 1. is a build op if it cant clear very efficiently ? no. so build has to clear pretty damn efficiently 2. is a build op if its very expensive ? with some notable exceptions in perma leagues, the answer is no. however a build that only requires gems and tree nodes is the cheapest there is, literally 3. is a build op if it doesnt have survivability ? no. you can have millions of deeps and die 1000 times if a build fits all three criteria, its likely that its op. if a build fits to a tee to this criteria, then its very likely op lets look at incinerate: 1. clear speed is very effective. its not cyclone with a good weapon and its not PA, sure. but those have some of the best clear speeds in the game, especially PA which is insane. 2. incinerate gotta be one of the least cost-demanding skills out there. look at my gear bro, Im a fucking bum and I melted dominus second form in cruel in 1.5 secs before he can even fart in my direction 3. survivability is very good due to incinerate being self-sufficient. you don't really have to invest into damage, you can just go stack life, defenses, block, jewels, whatever the fuck you want. part 3 is where 2.0 meta shifted from previous meta with crit builds. now crit spell caster builds dont have the survavibility anymore since they have to invest into crit. " thank you " 101 deaths ? holy shit bro ! I had 2 (two), one to malachai on cruel. played the most yolo style in my poe career in one of the most clusteruck league. Im a terrible player too. | |
" The game before maps is a joke. What a 4-link Incinerate, or any skill, does before maps is irrelevant. If you stick with self-cast Incinerate best of luck to you when you get to mapping. | |
|
I agree, you dont need a 5l skill till maps.
I think people are confusing incinerate totems with incinerate. self cast incinerate is not really all that more impressive than any other self cast skill. It does more damage , i wont deny that. but the trade off is that: 1 you need a tanky character to channel that damage .. or you will die. 2 its range and by extension clear speed is really bad. I played with an incinerator in warbands, a rf incinerator at that. All I had was a standard blah summoner. 0 armor , 4k life 0es crap gear. not an op srs hybrid, not a pure srs . none of that fancyness just a normal run of the mill queens decree zombie specter summoner. And i was clearing circles around my friend , and he was dying all the damn time despite having 20k armor 6k life max resists (which i did not have lol) Now MY incinerator went totems. no super durability .. hell i even use a tabby .. now that.. that is something silly to watch. Totem + incineration is the main issue here not either one individually. Incinerate is built as a channel skill, it is balanced as a channel skill. When you then use it in another way.. things just get wonky. the totem gem is built around the expectation that the spell has a high cast cost but normal cast rate. incinerate is about a low cost but high rate. so your totems end up being around 25- 34 mana each. That makes it one of the few skills to be viable on mana, and really trivial on mana. hugely borked. then there is the fact that totems can be made just as tanky as a real player while being totally disposable. get the easy totem life get spire of stone and you have a good 8 - 10 seconds of build up even vs things like haast. , that wont happen on a regular incinerator as even they would need to move away from that kind of ice spam most of the time. But despite all of those silly perks , totem incinerate wont hold a candle to things like coc or well built bow builds. But it is cheaper |
|
|
I hoped the thread wouldn't attention long enough so I didn't post anymore. But since you are all pushing that crap again I might join the "discussion".
Actually I only wanted to say one thing: " Faulty logic, the difference is that a strong skill and fast clearing speed isn't necessarily bad (= disease) but the game designer actually wanting the player to clear areas fast. But if one skill is stronger than the others than it clearly is overpowered and bad. Think about Dark Souls where you don't fight 20 monsters at once and a single normal enemy can take more time to kill than a whole group in PoE. Path of Exile is DESIGNED to kill mass monsters fast (for example: with Incinerate). But killing a group three times the size of a normal group with monsters five times as strong in less time shows: 1) that skill is probably overpowered 2) the first one (= Incinerate) is actually the exact opposite from being overpowered or 3) the game progression is shown with stronger skills (besides other stuffs), Diablo 2 had some similar skills on it's active skill tree where one is stronger then the other one (Immolation Arrow being a stronger Fire Arrow with AoE) 3) seems to be not the case for PoE where every (active) skill is supposed to be equally useful when geared right. Hence, it is a valid argument that there are other skills stronger. Maybe Incinerate has the actually wanted clear speed from the view of the designers? Maybe GGG wants every skill to be as strong as CoC 95% crit chance and has problems with other skills keeping up? Maybe the thread creater was right and Incinerate is overpowered from the view of the actual designers (actual designers = NOT YOU!!!) and they actually want everything to be weaker but have problems there without making people rage? |
|
