EXP Penalty Kills the Game

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YariChinMaiNichi wrote:

This reads,

"The experience penalty forces you to play builds limited to semi-tank or full."

Is that worse than

"Lack of any form of punishment on death makes every build not limited to semi-glass cannon or full pointless"?

Sure, I don't think the current system is ideal, I would prefer to see loss of survival bonus the way Sacred did it, loss of exp is kinda old.

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raics wrote:

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YariChinMaiNichi wrote:

This reads,

"The experience penalty forces you to play builds limited to semi-tank or full."

Is that worse than

"Lack of any form of punishment on death makes every build not limited to semi-glass cannon or full pointless"?

Sure, I don't think the current system is ideal, I would prefer to see loss of survival bonus the way Sacred did it, loss of exp is kinda old.

It certainly does not encourage build diversity is my point. It does, as Boem said, encourage people to play tanky builds, especially if they "lack skill" of perfect internet connections and such.

Just make it an option. Everybody wins. I play alone 95% of the time (because duh, lag) anyway. How is it that I need to be forced to endure this shatty aspect of the game in order for others to be able to enjoy it? Make it an option. They can keep their hollow "hey I narrowly didn't get punished" experience, I can enjoy my hour of unwinding at the end of a long day without it being ruined by losing said hour's worth (or more) of exp.

Make it an option.

I am completely opposite of TC. I think current exp penalty is not even enough. You should lose the level when dying with 0exp gained for current level.

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YariChinMaiNichi wrote:

Make it an option.

Unfortunately, a core game element can't be an option in an online competitive game, it isn't done. Turning off friendly fire in DnD games on easy mode is possible because those are single-player-only-story-driven games, you need to provide less apt players with a way to complete the game. Hence easy-normal-hard, which has no relation whatsoever to normal-cruel-merciless. Games like this can't have a difficulty setting.

But seriously, what is death penalty preventing you from doing? You can complete the game, you can beat all bosses, it sure doesn't prevent you from farming. The only thing you can't do are cheap 'million dps' builds that can't die if you (or the game) fuck up. And thank god it is so, game balance is crappy enough already.

Unwinding isn't an argument, when I want to play like a drowsy kitten I grab my immortal build or a summoner, everyone should have one of those and unwind to my heart's content. So, the game isn't forcing everybody to play tanks, it's forcing you in one particular situation.

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YariChinMaiNichi wrote:

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Boem wrote:

The experience penalty forces build diversity on players.

Without it, every build balance would lean towards glass canon or GTFO.

Currently you "can" go that route but it requires skill-play and caution to pull it off. Alternatively if you fear the experience penalty and the way it hinders your progression you have the option to go semi-tank or full tank mode to combat it.

Peace,

-Boem-

This reads,

"The experience penalty forces you to play builds limited to semi-tank or full."

Not really, it reads

"The experience penalty forces you to play builds limited to semi-tank or full depending on personal experience and skill level within the gaming platform presented"

Everybody can increase his skill level to comfortably play a glass canon in the end-game with the current restrictions and as such is rewarded a bonus for doing so. (faster loot/xp)

In a system where there is no experience penalty only glass canon's become the most efficient builds. It's not a "more reward for increased risk" it's simply a "why go tank it offers nothing" situation.

The current situation increases build diversity, while removing the experience penalty diminishes it.

Having certain builds be gated by skill is perfectly reasonable.

Peace,

-Boem-

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YariChinMaiNichi wrote:

It's a hopelessly dumb mechanic, shows lack of creativity, and really needs to be changed/disappear.

I think it really needs to stay so that builds with a lack of creativity that are played in a hopelessly dumb fashion are not every bit as viable as good builds played well. Its a game, its pointless if you still win even when you lose. It forces you to play good builds, yes, that is a good thing, that gives meaning to the entire build system and the game as a whole even.

Bad builds should be just as viable as good builds is not some kind of diversity argument for removing the xp penalty, thats a ridiculous notion.

I appreciate all the bumps guys, but I've had this conversation at length before. There are an unlimited number of more creative ways to incorporate a punishing element to playing beyond your ability, none of which are used. In stead, a base, droll mechanic is employed and to the effect that the game is frustrating, not in a risk/reward way like gambling with fusings or vaal orbs, but in a "this club has a dress code" way.

Y'all are saying pop your collar, get a blowout, wear sunglasses inside otherwise you'll ruin the scene.

Over it.

Make it an option, get over the fact that other people are enjoying the game in a different way than you. Stop pretending that it's a competitive game when you've got kids buying currency from botters.

That... Isn't a counter argument.

Wouldn't it be boring after a while? I mean, it's cool you can get to, say, level 85 and nap the passives you need to complete your build in no time. It'd then be fun for the next level or two; but what keeps you playing that character after that? You don't really need that extra 5% health or damage node, that big juicy keystone or jewel slot three levels away, because you kill and be killed just the same. The Plateau boss fight becomes mechanically the same as the Village Ruin or Crematorium one. If your toon dies your toon dies. It's just another portal.

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Quixote77 wrote:

Wouldn't it be boring after a while? I mean, it's cool you can get to, say, level 85 and nap the passives you need to complete your build in no time. It'd then be fun for the next level or two; but what keeps you playing that character after that? You don't really need that extra 5% health or damage node, that big juicy keystone or jewel slot three levels away, because you kill and be killed just the same. The Plateau boss fight becomes mechanically the same as the Village Ruin or Crematorium one. If your toon dies your toon dies. It's just another portal.

That's why it should be optional. It doesn't affect other players if one chooses to not be penalized one bit. Some heavy-thinkers imagine that that gives some players a competitive advantage, which is hilarious because this game is not an esport. The leagues and events, maybe you have different options for them, and hardcore obviously has an exp penalty, but standard could/should be a place for casual/semi-casual players to enjoy the experience and not feel like they just spent an hour(s), found nothing, and lost exp.

How much exp do you lose if you die in duels btw? Surely it's equal or greater than the normal exp penalty.