I am lucky, therefore game is fine

"

Vaux wrote:

If it takes no skill, you can't have risk/reward because there is no risk, just reward.

Got it backwards there, champ. Betting your rent money on a spin of a roulette wheel? That is risk, and skill means fuck all there. In PoE, knowledge and skill don't create risk, they (along with gear) mitigate it, and the winning strategy is to mitigate risk to literally zero. This is obvious in the design, because this game has a mode which can set you back dozens if not hundreds of hours of playtime for a single death, and even the "easy" mode's penalty is ridiculously draconian if we are to assume any significant level of risk whatsoever. (Oh, and relying on gear is for people who can't solve the puzzles.)

Thus, it is not "risk-reward." More like "mitigate risk, reward." I imagine to a certain extent the more risks you eliminate the more reward you should get, as that's what the game wants you to do, but outside of that, the idea of scaling reward based on anticipated risk is silly, because no risk is anticipated.

There is no one in games like these who willingly, knowingly engage threats which pose any level of significant risk to them. Well, almost no one, anyway.

Well, sure, maybe I worded it wrong. The point is, it is extremely easy & cheap to mitigate all risk, even without game knowledge because you can simply look up a cheap successful build, so scaling risk/reward doesn't work.

When skill is introduced into the equation, it changes everything. That doesn't happen in this game.

"

Vaux wrote:

it is extremely easy & cheap to mitigate all risk, even without game knowledge because you can simply look up a cheap successful build

Kole approves. Kole loves "cheap-build all-mitigators" without any game knowledge. Kole also loves gore smears under his feet. Actually, Kole doesn't know what's the difference between first and second ones.

"

Vaux wrote:

How in the world is this hard for all of you to understand. In no part of my post did I say knowledge is not a critical factor with success.

Definitions of skill:

1. the ability, coming from one's knowledge, practice, aptitude, etc., to do something well.

Doing something well that COMES FROM knowledge, yet is completely separate.

2. competent excellence in performance; expertness; dexterity.

Performance

3. a craft, trade, or job requiring manual dexterity or special training in which a person has competence and experience

Self explanatory on this last one I hope.

Point is, knowledge and skill are in no way, shape or form one in the same.

On your resume, under skills, do you list all of the things you've learned over the course of your career or in school? How smart you are? No, you list fundamental skills like working within a team and communication.

Maybe you're all still in junior high so this is a hard concept to grasp? I don't know what else to think.

Well, actually I'm a engineer, working for navy, thank you. :=)
Point 1. "skill [...] coming from one's knowledge [...] to do something well." - I dunno man, your resume comparison is sweet, but I think one and the other does, in fact, combine on SOME POINT (also see: point 1.).

Lets put it the other way, so we don't argue any more:

Knowledge is needed in PoE and League of Legends.

GG WP, NO RE.

"

johnKeys wrote:

"

Xavderion wrote:

Even in games like LoL knowledge is the biggest part of skill. "Knowing when to split push" and stuff is the biggest thing that makes you better than baddies.

see? you me and Perq actually agree on something.
guess this means the end of the world is coming...

Nah, it only means that one can disagree, and not take it to the personal area, so being in disagreement only for the sake of making someone angry. :) You are wrong (in my opinion, of course) on some topics, but there will be some where we will agree.
On the other hand, there are plenty of people, like, YouTubers, streamers, actors, musicians and so on, that I like watching, listening to [...], but still I don't agree on EVERYTHING they say, just because I happen to like some of their stuff. This is how we work, and this is why being a human is so entertaining (sometimes). You don't have to agree and occasionally you can have a nice, civilized discussion about stuff. The hate tho... welp.

EDIT:

"

Vaux wrote:

Well, sure, maybe I worded it wrong. The point is, it is extremely easy & cheap to mitigate all risk, even without game knowledge because you can simply look up a cheap successful build, so scaling risk/reward doesn't work.

When skill is introduced into the equation, it changes everything. That doesn't happen in this game.

LOL. Ok, I think I had enough. ;-D Your denial is almost cute.

"

There are lots of stories of players getting their overpowered build from the forums, not understanding it well enough, and thus losing all the benefits of taking said build.

Whenever I see that kind of comment, I am always reminded of angry 6L shavs dude.

"

"

There are lots of stories of players getting their overpowered build from the forums, not understanding it well enough, and thus losing all the benefits of taking said build.

Whenever I see that kind of comment, I am always reminded of angry 6L shavs dude.

Googled angry 6L shavs dude - cannot find anything .

Link please ?

I don't really want to link it, because it turned out the story behind it was a lot sadder than we all thought at first, and the dude still posts occasionally in the forums.

I'll find it and PM it to you.

EDIT: To stem the vast tide of PM requests, please fuel your schadenfreude here: https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1112922/highlight/25/page/1

Please note, you'll need to read the links posted by Haruka to get the most out of the adventures.

"

I don't really want to link it, because it turned out the story behind it was a lot sadder than we all thought at first, and the dude still posts occasionally in the forums.

I'll find it and PM it to you.

Could I get it as well, pls?

"

camapngu133 wrote:

"

I don't really want to link it, because it turned out the story behind it was a lot sadder than we all thought at first, and the dude still posts occasionally in the forums.

I'll find it and PM it to you.

Could I get it as well, pls?

Me too... pwese? : (