I am lucky, therefore game is fine

That thread is epic.

"

Vaux wrote:

Well, sure, maybe I worded it wrong. The point is, it is extremely easy & cheap to mitigate all risk, even without game knowledge because you can simply look up a cheap successful build, so scaling risk/reward doesn't work.

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Vaux wrote:

you can simply look up a cheap successful build

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Vaux wrote:

look up

That is knowledge.

Making the cheap successful build yourself is skill. And perhaps originality. But you seem to think looking something up and following the appropriate directions isn't knowledge. Except it is. Because words mean things.

Oh, and how well you can perform internet research? That's a skill, too. Not exactly traditional to test it so much in a computer game, but still.

Now go make a fake wiki edit. You'll feel better, knowing those posers who do research instead of learning first-hand will be deprived of sweet, sweet information.

"

ScrotieMcB wrote:

"

Vaux wrote:

Well, sure, maybe I worded it wrong. The point is, it is extremely easy & cheap to mitigate all risk, even without game knowledge because you can simply look up a cheap successful build, so scaling risk/reward doesn't work.

"

Vaux wrote:

you can simply look up a cheap successful build

"

Vaux wrote:

look up

That is knowledge.

Making the cheap successful build yourself is skill. And perhaps originality. But you seem to think looking something up and following the appropriate directions isn't knowledge. Except it is. Because words mean things.

Oh, and how well you can perform internet research? That's a skill, too. Not exactly traditional to test it so much in a computer game, but still.

Now go make a fake wiki edit. You'll feel better, knowing those posers who do research instead of learning first-hand will be deprived of sweet, sweet information.

You're saying my argument is weak, yet you just spat out this nonsense...really? Looking up builds requires a brain so it constitutes as game knowledge? Game knowledge like understanding boss fights, how to position, when to use certain skills, when to apply a certain strategy. Like, really?

Yes, theorycrafting is a skill, I'll give you that. Unfortunately, theorycrafting has nothing to do with the actual skill of playing the game. You can be a great theorycrafter at a game that actually requires skill and still be terrible at it because your mechanical skills in the game are poor.

I'm not even going to try and decipher what you were trying to imply in your last sentence. Seems like some last ditch effort to throw an insult my way because you have absolutely no argument.

Are we debating about mechanical skill in a ARPG?

Because in the end ARPGs are not a very hard genre to play at all, nor does it require "alot of mechanical skill" to be good at."

You run into mobs of brainless AI to mass slay massive amounts of them everyday, sometimes dying to the occasional one shot because sometimes damage > your defenses.

ARPG is a fun genre because of exactly that, but theory-crafting vs "mechanical skill." Argument is getting out of hand argument is getting out of hand because ARPG are on some of the lowest totem pole of any sort of competitive or actual skill.

I would say even being great at pong or tetris takes more skill.

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RagnarokChu wrote:

I would say even being great at pong or tetris takes more skill.

If you mean mechanical skill then I'd agree. But

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Vaux wrote:

theorycrafting is a skill, I'll give you that

so if you don't specify the type of skill, we'd need to find some method of valuing mechanical versus other skills, and at the end of the day stuff like "what's the conversion ratio of internet research skill to mechanical play skill?" are basically pure value judgment, where I do not see how any debate could be concluded rationally.

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ScrotieMcB wrote:

we'd need to find some method of valuing mechanical versus other skills

There you go:

Most people are hindered by the difficulty of some mechanical games. In fact, some mechanical games are so difficult that they are impossible, or next to it, for a large percentage of the population.

On the other hand, most people could easily find a solid guide for PoE. There is a wealth of detailed information about the game, tactics and strategy, trading, good builds, etc. The most popular guides bring the amount of hand holding to ridiculous levels.

Let' say 90% of the populace could do something. Then let's say that only 10% could so something else. It would be safe to assume the latter requires more skill than the former.

Mechanical skill is very primitive, it's basically all about training your muscle memory.

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Xavderion wrote:

Mechanical skill is very primitive, it's basically all about training your muscle memory.

You must be a pro gamer.

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Vaux wrote:

"

Xavderion wrote:

Mechanical skill is very primitive, it's basically all about training your muscle memory.

You must be a pro gamer.

Really tho, what was this thread about, again? XDDDDD
I can imagine that someone from support will come here and wipe like half of the thread, because there is nothing on-topic going on for that long.

PS. BaMBI - Arnold post is always a good post. :DDDDD

"

Xavderion wrote:

Mechanical skill is very primitive, it's basically all about training your muscle memory.

6/10

"

Perq wrote:

Really tho, what was this thread about, again? XDDDDD
I can imagine that someone from support will come here and wipe like half of the thread, because there is nothing on-topic going on for that long.

When the topic is lacking, the discussion naturally wanders off. JK's threads usually go like this: "Don't get me wrong, I love PoE, but *complain* *complain* *accuse players of something* *demand game and players to change*

That shit quickly gets old and it's been, what, 2 years now?