All this commotion about the Mjölner

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Aim_Deep wrote:

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Nurvus wrote:

All this talk about Legacy items.

Some people think Legacy items should go, and others think they should stay because "scrubleague" doesn't matter.

But here is some food for thought:
1 - Legacy items are Legacy because they were overpowered in their original concept and needed a nerf.
2 - We have builds that use multiple Uniques (like Mjölner builds).

With more and more uniques being added in the future, will we get to a point where some people manage to make a build full of OP Legacy Uniques?
What is the point of Legacy items?

And for those that think having a Legacy item doesn't affect other players: We are talking about a game run on economy.
If a build becomes considerably better due to using Legacy items, you perform better - farm better, etc - and thus influence the economy of the game.
So yeah you affect other players.

Cheap builds farm just fine so I dont buy that.

And even then we are talking about legacy vs non legacy. Is a 1000 life Kaoms gonna make you that much better than 500 life one? Or a +5 saffels much faster farmer than +4? Infinitesimal.

Its all about envy.

I'm much more worried about bot farms running 24/7 effecting economy than a guy with legacy gears enjoying himself a couple hrs a day wrecking shit

Well also the thing is people that have legacy items typically have them from when they dropped as such, so if you try to say legacy items aren't ok then what is the suggestion for people that found or traded for said item before you dumpster its current rolls?

You're asking wrong person I like legacy gear.

1. ppl are entitled to what they bought/found not bait and switch operation.
2. its pisses ppl off for no reason to nerf their shit which can hurt GGGs Bottom line which hurts me if less is invested in game.
3. its something I look forward to min/maxing someday in the competition free std league

all in all they are cool.


PvP is only valid argument I heard for banning them. Which is easy enough. Just red flag PvP players wearing legacy gear and you could choose to play with them or not.

When it comes to OP Legacy gear that enables more efficient farming and affects the economy, then Mjölner/Kaom´s and whatnot is the last place you need to look. Standard League is full of MF cullers wearing legacy quantity gear and using legacy quantity gems. So if anyone rakes in more farming profit than others, it´s these guys and not the overpowered insane clearspeed builds, or supertanky chars wearing legacy Kaom´s Heart and such.

Other than that, I am with CanHasPants : too much talk about nothing, guys !

Unless GGG found a way to retroactively change numerical mod values on items, Mjölner will go Legacy and the legacy versions will receive the attack speed buff from the gavel base change. And quite frankly, I don´t see how this could be a problem for anybody.

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ScrotieMcB wrote:

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CanHasPants wrote:

Either it's a good rule, or it's bad.

It's bad. Unquestionably. I mean, you have players using different versions of the same item, that's just not good; it would obviously only be justified if other options were worse.

You're right; however, it's also a good rule. Unquestionably. Because I said "unquestionably."

Your reason isn't very different from having different affix value rolls between items.

The "rules" (though they're more guidelines) as "written" impart significance to item permanency. The only downside is that permancy means GGG must own up to their mistakes. And oh boy, have they made....

The good new is that over time the population of non-legacy drops will outweigh existing legacy items. I mean, when was the last time somebody said BoR was OP?

Hint: they didn't.

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CanHasPants wrote:

The good new is that over time the population of non-legacy drops will outweigh existing legacy items.

This isn't measuring what actually matters. If you have 2 legacy Kaom's and 3 normal ones, or 1 legacy and 9 normal, only matters in terms of a secondary characteristic (your ability to proliferate legacy items to others). The heart of the issue is access to 1 or more, because that is what determines equipment options.

In terms of absolute numbers of legacies, one cannot safely assume absolute numbers are dropping. While it seems likely that players quitting Standard causes greater loss, new legacies can still enter Standard from Hardcore. It is also difficult to determine how legacies have spread out among many players or consolidated into a few hands over time.

Couple this with the overall population of Standard and you have a picture of what percentage of Standard players have access (essentially, playing with an outdated, flawed ruleset), versus how many are not. This ratio is the key metric, and it is significantly more multifaceted than you gave it credit for.

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Aim_Deep wrote:

You're asking wrong person I like legacy gear.

I don't mind it, but Devil's Advocate.

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1. ppl are entitled to what they bought/found not bait and switch operation.

Why? This game has changed a great deal since intial launch. So most stuff has changed one way or another.

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2. its pisses ppl off for no reason to nerf their shit which can hurt GGGs Bottom line which hurts me if less is invested in game.

Nope. GGG genuinely does a lot of stuff because of balance.
They've provided rationale for everything they've changed in CB. There are reasons. But people don't care, they just hate change and don't want to change.

If they really just wanted to pander, they'd just keep rolling out new flashy toys instead and leave everything unbalanced. I'd respect GGG a lot less if they did that. Whatever their technical failings, they're making the game that they want to make.

The rage is puffed-up clowny nonsense. Players would've left anyway because there are other games to play or other life commitments to attend to.

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3. its something I look forward to min/maxing someday in the competition free std league

The difference between a legacy Mjolner existing or not. Well I don't care either way for the reasons you've already given. Both would wreck content equally well at completion of build.

heh Devil's Advocate mean you dont believe it and just wasting ur time and mine. I dont care about urs but mine is valuable. Get a good argument and i may reply

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Aim_Deep wrote:

heh Devil's Advocate mean you dont believe it and just wasting ur time and mine. I dont care about urs but mine is valuable. Get a good argument and i may reply

You're awfully petulant. While I don't care whether legacies exist, your reasons are different from mine. Nobody is entitled to anything. Least of all you. You agree with this implicitly as soon as you start scorning people for legacy envy and dismiss them as unimportant.

You start with the assumption that GGG is motivated purely by spite or a hatred of the bandwagon then seek to justify your position afterwards. You don't care that's there's clear evidence to the contrary. It's a pattern with you.

Legacies are unimportant, but they should keep them anyway because otherwise GGG are big fat meanies. That's a silly and self-contradictory position to take.

GGG has been creating legacy versions forever and they are a part of the game, it would be terrible to just break their streak. As this is a numerical change and not a mechanic change. Legacy items ensure people's builds do not get ruined.

It sure seems to me that the best argument people seem to have around here is "[X] has been done that way forever so they (GGG) can't change it now."

Seems like admitting a mistake and changing (even after a long while of making said mistake) is not only a sign of maturity, but extremely healthy and can have long lasting beneficial results.

This applies not only to a game, but life in general.

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Rexire wrote:

...ensure people's builds do not get ruined.

I do not believe this sentiment ever once entered the minds of GGG. They surely do not care if your particular build gets ruined or not... The good of the game as a whole is surely their #1 priority.